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Paterno: Why he should coach forever

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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby bdog » Tue Jul 24, 2012 6:09 am

Meade wrote: Joseph Vincent "Joe" Paterno, was so effective in his dishonesty, so skillful in his hoodwinkery, that he completely fooled hundreds of thousands of fans of football, for example, jjoyce who in 2007 initiated a fawning discussion topic on an internet forum message board:
Paterno: Why he should coach forever... JoePa Will Put Your Ass To Work

This is getting 12 monkeyish but...it's time to acknowledge the elephant in the room.

Jason what do you think of this whole mess and the resulting penalties?

My jaw dropped when I heard the penalties. I thought they got it right.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Huckleby » Tue Jul 24, 2012 7:12 am

My predictions:

1 Zero athletes are going to transfer
2 Penn State will have an excellent football team in 2012. They have the talent, and now they have a unifying cause.
3 The cult of football around Penn State is going to strengthen, as people unify around their beloved institution that they see unfairly under attack. Nothing strengthens any group like a shared sense of victimization.
4 We get to see all of the above on high definition TV. Ratings will be sky high! The clients that the NCAA represents, the other universities, will be raking in the dough rather than paying any financial penalty.
5 In future years, the team will gradually become non-competitive as the reduced scholarships starts to bite. Still, they will have more talent than the lower tier Big Ten teams.

I think the sanctions are 100% counterproductive. As time goes on, the argument that sanctions are pointlessly punishing innocent people grows stronger.

The ONLY useful response was to do something strong and brief, i.e., shutdown football for one season. That forces the cult to take a time out. Long term consequences of suspension to football program are unknown, but I expect most players would accept an extra red shirt year knowing the slate is clean on other side. I expect Penn State is uniquely positioned to rebound quickly.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby O.J. » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:07 am

Huckleby wrote: Zero athletes are going to transfer


I'll bet you $20, payable to the food pantry(or other charity) of your choice that you're wrong. And, as far as them being "uniquely positioned" to rebound quickly, do you realize the ramifications of the large decrease in available scholarships the NCAA imposed on them?
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby O.J. » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:11 am

Huckleby wrote:
3 The cult of football around Penn State is going to strengthen, as people unify around their beloved institution that they see unfairly under attack. Nothing strengthens any group like a shared sense of victimization.

The ONLY useful response was to do something strong and brief, i.e., shutdown football for one season. That forces the cult to take a time out.


You honestly believe that shutting down the program for a year would eliminate #3?
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Huckleby » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:50 am

There are no sure or good solutions. Of course nothing can be expected to eliminate the football cult.

Forcing football to go dark for one year is strong statement, yet minimizes time and opportunity for cult-building resentment. The time-off might lead to some positive reflection about football mania. This is best that can be done.

What are the TV commentators going to be saying this fall? "Look at those plucky, innocent Penn State kids playing for love of school!" This feeds the sense of victimization. And they have a legitimate point.

What NCAA has done is exactly wrong, worst of all approaches. Much better to just demur. Maximum long term punishment of the innocent, maximum festering resentment, immediate firing-up of the circuc /cult, with heightened TV exposure.

NCAA's #1 priority was maintaining uninterupted business for its clients.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Huckleby » Tue Jul 24, 2012 8:56 am

O.J. wrote:
Huckleby wrote: Zero athletes are going to transfer


I'll bet you $20, payable to the food pantry(or other charity) of your choice that you're wrong. And, as far as them being "uniquely positioned" to rebound quickly, do you realize the ramifications of the large decrease in available scholarships the NCAA imposed on them?


Well, duh, there will be between 0 and 10 players who transfer. Putting all chips on 0 is not a great bet. The point is that transfers will be negligible, with 0 being most likely.
If you want a fair bet, put your chips on a single number and I'll take 0, Diamond Jim.

My rebound comment was in reference to a one year suspension, which I expect Penn STate could have weathered easily. The existing sanctions are going to harm Penn State much more long term, which I see as pointless.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby bleurose » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:12 am

Have to say that I sympathize with much of Huck's frustration. While the imposed sanctions are indeed severe and have good chances of knocking Penn's football program out of the competitive picture for several years, nevertheless, it is still in the picture.

I believe that the NCAA is a weak regulatory organization and growing weaker all the time - it essentially has lost control of college basketball and is left only nominally "controlling" college football. It had to be seen to do something and something significant if it wanted even a shred of credibility. I think that is part of the reason for the haste of its announcements. In a less high profile situation, it would not have announced such penalties until much more of the legal process had been completed.

There was a good article a few months ago in The Atlantic about how the NCAA has morphed since its inception and that article explains pretty convincingly how it has lost any meaningful regulatory control over college basketball and how it is almost inexorably losing same over college football. The universities are making their own deals with media, deciding how conferences are being structured, have started their own dedicated sports networks, have much if not everything to say about bowl games and "national championship" set-up, etc. The NCAA is pretty much cut out of these processes or at best, has only one voice among the many.

Having said all that though, this was a really tough situation in which there was likely not a good way to sanction the institution without also negatively affecting people and programs that had had nothing to do with the criminal activity. And I also believe that what the NCAA did by allowing Penn State to keep an active program was totally driven by their own bottom line - this is about the revenue that will be generated when people go to the Penn State games. And I have no way of even remotely proving that :?

Right now, I just wish someone could convince the Paterno family to STFU :evil: They are doing nothing to help whatever cause it is they think they have and everything possible to turn people against them.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Meade » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:49 am

Who cares about the Paterno and his legacy? To hell with him.

I hope all the victims - of Sandusky, Paterno, Paterno's fans, Penn State university officials, et al. - will now be able to start rebuilding their still-young lives. May they each find freedom, peace, and happiness.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby O.J. » Tue Jul 24, 2012 9:58 am

For once, I agree with Meade. Now, excuse me while I go dunk my head in a deep fryer.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Huckleby » Wed Jul 25, 2012 9:11 am

http://espn.go.com/college-football/story/_/id/8196987/college-football-pen-state-nittany-lions-coach-bill-obrien-embraces-new-challenge

The Penn State coach is telling his players not to transfer because the team is still on TV.

Very legitimate point. The players are going to be heros on TV, fighting-on as innocent victims of unfair sanctions. The football TV commentators are uniformly against the sanctions, from what I've heard.

TV is where the rubber met the road. That's the NCAA's gravy train.

The problem with playing this fall is it will feed the "this is not a football scandal" cult of denial. Lou Holtz was on TV screaming "bloody murder" over the sanctions. The people who are saying that "the sanctions are far worse than the death penalty" may be correct, but they also were even more against a one year suspension. They want to deny the broad cultural problem.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:26 pm

It could have been a lot worse for Penn State football.

If Penn State had not accepted the package of NCAA sanctions announced Monday, the Nittany Lions faced a historic death penalty of four years, university president Rodney Erickson told "Outside the Lines" on Wednesday afternoon.

In a separate interview, NCAA president Mark Emmert confirmed that a core group of NCAA school presidents had agreed early last week that an appropriate punishment was no Penn State football for four years.

Emmert told Erickson in a phone conversation on July 17 that a majority of the NCAA's leadership wanted to levy the four-year penalty because of Penn State's leaders' roles in covering up the child sexual abuse of former assistant coach Jerry Sandusky.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Meade » Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:44 pm

Hard to believe but some people still don't understand what Paterno did wrong: http://www.buzzfeed.com/jpmoore/some-pe ... joe-patern
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby O.J. » Thu Jul 26, 2012 8:07 am

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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby Huckleby » Wed Aug 01, 2012 6:17 pm

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaaf-dr- ... ncaaf.html

Looks like the Penn State unraveling may indeed happen this year.
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Re: Paterno: Why he should coach forever

Postby bdog » Sat Aug 04, 2012 7:33 am

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