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Four (Count 'em) Four Brewer All-Stars

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Postby Fat.The.Gangster » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:56 pm

funkwood wrote:
Fat.The.Gangster wrote:
TheBookPolice wrote:That's great! Where does that seed the Cubs in this year's playoffs?


Well, based on history, probably ahead of the Braves/Pilots/Brewers. Again.


That's great. I am sure you have fond memories of those Tinkers to Evers to Chance teams. The rest of us weren't alive back then!


Hey Potsy, I think you brought up the Milwaukee Brave's alleged domination over the Cubs. When was that again?
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Postby TheBookPolice » Mon Jul 02, 2007 2:56 pm

Fat.The.Gangster wrote:
TheBookPolice wrote:That's great! Where does that seed the Cubs in this year's playoffs?


Well, based on history, probably ahead of the Braves/Pilots/Brewers. Again.


Ah, baseball fan.

Listen. The game is too old. Too many teams get left out of the postseason. Fans of unsuccessful teams are forced to trot out past success as a badge that is somehow supposed to immunize that team from current criticism.

If your team can't hack it this season, I really just don't want to hear it. And right now, the Brewers are hacking it better than the Cubs, and every other NL team.

That's how you get the All-Star voters to look your way. It's a popularity contest, and the team at the top of the standings is the first team people see. Short of the Yankees, that's pretty much how it happens.
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Postby nevermore » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:00 pm

funkwood wrote:
nevermore wrote:
funkwood wrote:You are crazy if you don't think Prince deserves to be the All-Star starter.

While I appreciate good defense a lot in baseball and I think D Lee is fabulous with the glove (certainly one of the best I have ever seen) he is currently a glorified singles and doubles hitter. First base is a POWER position. D Lee has not hit a home run in a month. I guarantee the Cubs would take Prince's 25+HR and 60+ RBI at this point in a heartbeat if it came at a cost of 10+ errors.

In fact I was watching an Arizona D-Back game just last week in which the first baseman committed an error and the play by play guy (Darren Sutton-old Brewers announcer) said that Prince lead the league in errors by a first baseman. The color guy (Mark Grace- yes THAT Mark Grace) stated something like (I am paraphrasing): "I could care less if my first baseman made a few errors if he had 26 bombs in the middle of June like Prince has."

Considering Grace who was also a whiz with the glove, I think that says a lot.

Wait, wait, wait - You first claim that 1B is a POWER position and then back up your case for Prince by quoting somebody who never got more than 17HR in 16 seasons playing 1B? Got it.


I think it backs up my point even more to tell you the truth. Wouldn't it seem sillier if I cited a Cecil Fielder type (minus the relation) stating his admiration for Prince?

If I recall Grace often joked about his lack of power in his career. He was obviously the exception rather than the rule at 1B but then again he kind of played before the whole HR/roids explosion. But I think if you asked any baseball GM they would want a guy at 1B they could pencil in for 30+ HR a year.

You're saying 1B is a power position and that's why Prince deserves the start, yes?

Well my contention here is that Prince ain't the best 1B in the league but has mashed a bit so far. I don't think that he deserves the start based on that. Of course, everybody knows where I'm coming from and I obviously have my biases and I think somebody else is a better 1B and I think I made my case.

As for whether or not 1B is a POWER position, I don't think any position is technically. Good managers slot players where they can play in the field. There are a few 1Bs throughout history that mashed (Rollins, Big Mac, Foxx, Greenberg) but most of the sluggers were in the outfield (Sammy and Hack Wilson come to mind, natch - but so do Ruth, Barroid, Griffey, Maris, etc).
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Postby funkwood » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:00 pm

Fat.The.Gangster wrote:
funkwood wrote:
Fat.The.Gangster wrote:
TheBookPolice wrote:That's great! Where does that seed the Cubs in this year's playoffs?


Well, based on history, probably ahead of the Braves/Pilots/Brewers. Again.


That's great. I am sure you have fond memories of those Tinkers to Evers to Chance teams. The rest of us weren't alive back then!


Hey Potsy, I think you brought up the Milwaukee Brave's alleged domination over the Cubs. When was that again?


I think when such inventions as television, automobiles, and maybe even the written word were around. 1880s, 1890s, and 1900s I am not so sure about.
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Postby nevermore » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:01 pm

funkwood wrote:
nevermore wrote:
funkwood wrote:Considering the franchise is only 35+ years old then "never" really isn't compared to 99.

I take it the Milwaukee Braves' mastery of the Cubs counts for nothing on your little scorecard.

Is this what it has come to?

Well, ah, ah, between 1953 and 1968 the team that's now in Atlanta OWNED the Cubs! Scoreboard!


It's just as idiotic as someone rolling out turn of the century Cubs pennant winning teams.

Agreed.
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Postby Fat.The.Gangster » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:06 pm

TheBookPolice wrote:Listen. The game is too old. Too many teams get left out of the postseason. Fans of unsuccessful teams are forced to trot out past success as a badge that is somehow supposed to immunize that team from current criticism.

If your team can't hack it this season, I really just don't want to hear it. And right now, the Brewers are hacking it better than the Cubs, and every other NL team.

That's how you get the All-Star voters to look your way. It's a popularity contest, and the team at the top of the standings is the first team people see. Short of the Yankees, that's pretty much how it happens.


So, if I understand you correctly, our debate can focus solely on who has more all-stars this season (as you concede, an arbitrary award based upon popularity) or the won-loss records of a season as yet complete. I don't know about you, but I'd rather call someone Potsy and make fun of their team's complete lack of success throughout history. Besides, the Cubs hold the season series lead at 7 to 5, so I guess head-to-head, we are hacking better than you.
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Postby funkwood » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:08 pm

nevermore wrote:
funkwood wrote:
nevermore wrote:
funkwood wrote:You are crazy if you don't think Prince deserves to be the All-Star starter.

While I appreciate good defense a lot in baseball and I think D Lee is fabulous with the glove (certainly one of the best I have ever seen) he is currently a glorified singles and doubles hitter. First base is a POWER position. D Lee has not hit a home run in a month. I guarantee the Cubs would take Prince's 25+HR and 60+ RBI at this point in a heartbeat if it came at a cost of 10+ errors.

In fact I was watching an Arizona D-Back game just last week in which the first baseman committed an error and the play by play guy (Darren Sutton-old Brewers announcer) said that Prince lead the league in errors by a first baseman. The color guy (Mark Grace- yes THAT Mark Grace) stated something like (I am paraphrasing): "I could care less if my first baseman made a few errors if he had 26 bombs in the middle of June like Prince has."

Considering Grace who was also a whiz with the glove, I think that says a lot.

Wait, wait, wait - You first claim that 1B is a POWER position and then back up your case for Prince by quoting somebody who never got more than 17HR in 16 seasons playing 1B? Got it.


I think it backs up my point even more to tell you the truth. Wouldn't it seem sillier if I cited a Cecil Fielder type (minus the relation) stating his admiration for Prince?

If I recall Grace often joked about his lack of power in his career. He was obviously the exception rather than the rule at 1B but then again he kind of played before the whole HR/roids explosion. But I think if you asked any baseball GM they would want a guy at 1B they could pencil in for 30+ HR a year.

You're saying 1B is a power position and that's why Prince deserves the start, yes?

Well my contention here is that Prince ain't the best 1B in the league but has mashed a bit so far. I don't think that he deserves the start based on that. Of course, everybody knows where I'm coming from and I obviously have my biases and I think somebody else is a better 1B and I think I made my case.

As for whether or not 1B is a POWER position, I don't think any position is technically. Good managers slot players where they can play in the field. There are a few 1Bs throughout history that mashed (Rollins, Big Mac, Foxx, Greenberg) but most of the sluggers were in the outfield (Sammy and Hack Wilson come to mind, natch - but so do Ruth, Barroid, Griffey, Maris, etc).



A quick glance at MLB.com shows 4 of the top 8 HR hitters in all of MLB are 1B. 7 of the top 21. This ISN'T including guys like Dunn or Duncan who have played a fair amount of 1B in their careers.
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Postby TheBookPolice » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:12 pm

Fat.The.Gangster wrote:So, if I understand you correctly, our debate can focus solely on who has more all-stars this season (as you concede, an arbitrary award based upon popularity) or the won-loss records of a season as yet complete. I don't know about you, but I'd rather call someone Potsy and make fun of their team's complete lack of success throughout history. Besides, the Cubs hold the season series lead at 7 to 5, so I guess head-to-head, we are hacking better than you.


Did you catch the title of this thread? And it's a good thing there aren't just two teams in MLB, 'cause this would be a pretty boring conversation. Head-to-head is kinda meaningless unless it's best of 5 or 7.

I'm saying that the Brewers are a better team than the Cubs right now, and that's why A) they have more All-Stars overall, and B) Fielder is starting for the NL.
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Postby Paco » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:14 pm

This is hilarious. Fans of two of the least storied franchises are arguing about which team sucks more.
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Postby buckyor » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:15 pm

Fat.The.Gangster wrote:Right now, on July 2, 2007, the Brewers have the best record in the National League with two months yet to play. That is swell.


I think you've inadvertently put your finger on something here. I think you've explained why the Cubs never seem to show up for September baseball.
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Postby Fat.The.Gangster » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:20 pm

Paco wrote:This is hilarious. Fans of two of the least storied franchises are arguing about which team sucks more.


Shouldn't you be complaining about your waste bins somewhere else on this forum?

Whiny Paco wrote:I have to take my car* out to get the medium sized trash cart out now. With the big one, I doubt I'll even be able to keep my car in there. So I guess now my garage is solely for trash bins. Not everyone has a garage built in the last 20 years that is oversized.
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Postby Fat.The.Gangster » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:22 pm

buckyor wrote:I think you've inadvertently put your finger on something here. I think you've explained why the Cubs never seem to show up for September baseball.


You mean the four times since 1982?
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Postby funkwood » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:23 pm

Paco wrote:This is hilarious. Fans of two of the least storied franchises are arguing about which team sucks more.


I wasn't aware that internet forums served any other greater purposes than pointless arguing.

Feel free to start a Yankees-Red Sox thread. Two teams that seem to fly under the media's radar every season.
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Postby Paco » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:24 pm

Oh Fat, you really took me down a peg or two.
I feel so humbled after that.

Shouldn't you be on a treadmill somewhere?
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Postby nevermore » Mon Jul 02, 2007 3:28 pm

funkwood wrote:
Paco wrote:This is hilarious. Fans of two of the least storied franchises are arguing about which team sucks more.


I wasn't aware that internet forums served any other greater purposes than pointless arguing.

Feel free to start a Yankees-Red Sox thread. Two teams that seem to fly under the media's radar every season.

Nah, let's start a Tampa Bay Devilrays-Washington Nationals thread instead.
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