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Nebraska coach outspoken against gays

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Re: Nebraska coach outspoken against gays

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:08 pm

gargantua wrote:
Meade wrote: Yours and Henry Vilas's bigoted views...

What, exactly, did I say that was bigoted?

Just more psychological projection on Meade's part.
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Re: Nebraska coach outspoken against gays

Postby jjoyce » Fri Apr 27, 2012 12:17 pm

Meade wrote:Exactly how is Brown "persecuting" anyone?


Really, Meade?

Definition of persecute: "To oppress or harass with ill-treatment, especially because of race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, or beliefs."

Brown is using his position with NU to lead an effort against a Lincoln anti-discrimination ordinance, which is to say that he has publicly endorsed discriminating against gays. Again: He's actually saying that since he's a football coach at NU, he's been chosen by God to make people aware of Jesus and his teachings (talk about false prophets, incidentally). Without his job at a public, secular university, he wouldn't be doing this. He has said as much.

And, again, it's been well established that Brown actually preaches on internet video in his NU coaching togs (supplied by the university at no cost to him) on the NU field (a university venue). So when he's preaching against gays, one might logically draw a line between what he's doing, the university that's allowing him to do it and the people who are the targets of his scorn.
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Re: Nebraska coach outspoken against gays

Postby Meade » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:03 pm

jjoyce wrote:Brown is using his position with NU to lead an effort against a Lincoln anti-discrimination ordinance, which is to say that he has publicly endorsed discriminating against gays.

You've read the city ordinance?

Those of you who want Brown to lose his job because of his religious views are no different from the anti-communist witch hunters back in the 50's.
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Re: Nebraska coach outspoken against gays

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:24 pm

Meade wrote:... no different from the anti-communist witch hunters back in the 50's.

Or like your posts in the Red Menace thread.
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Re: Nebraska coach outspoken against gays

Postby rrnate » Fri Apr 27, 2012 1:56 pm

Meade wrote:Those of you who want Brown to lose his job because of his religious views are no different from the anti-communist witch hunters back in the 50's.


This is a pretty hilarious parallel and I think at this point, it's safe to say we can stop taking you seriously (though, of course, some of the maybe wiser folks here already have).
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Re: Nebraska coach outspoken against gays

Postby Meade » Fri Apr 27, 2012 3:49 pm

I'm serious - where do you stop? Should every public university employee who speaks publicly in opposition to proposed government actions that they perceive to be immoral and irreligious be threatened with job loss? Will you create a list? A black list? Will your list go beyond academia? Will you hunt for people with wrong religious/ideological beliefs in the arts? the film industry? Will you boycott businesses owned by those with the wrong religious beliefs? political beliefs? ideological beliefs? Perhaps you would want to form a government committee. You could call it the House Un-Progressive American Activities Committee.
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Re: Nebraska coach outspoken against gays

Postby jjoyce » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:28 pm

rrnate wrote:This is a pretty hilarious parallel and I think at this point, it's safe to say we can stop taking you seriously (though, of course, some of the maybe wiser folks here already have).


I checked out right about the time you did, Nate. Meade appears to be deliberately ignoring the most important point: This guy is using the platform created for him by his job as football coach at a public university to preach. Literally. Nobody is saying he can't believe what he believes or even speak about it. It's that he is doing his preaching on the university dime, wearing university gear and on the university football field.

Here's my parallel: An English professor shows up in class and, instead of lecturing about literature, talks about global warming. Or an engineering professor who looks at the messages from Ayn Rand's works. Or a softball coach who uses her post-game press conference to rail against the 1%.

Brown very deliberately has taken his ministry to the workplace. It's his organization's mission. Allowing that to continue, unchecked, is a dangerous precedent for a lot of reasons, but the biggest is that it's simply not the right place for it. Preach at church, coach football at the stadium. And when you're speaking out against anti-discrimination ordinances, or any ordinances, take off your Nebraska gear.

There's a difference between being a religious person (even a religious person who wants to create an environment that's hostile to gay people, as Brown does) and specifically using the public platform you have as a representative of a public university, at taxpayer expense, to heap scorn upon those that don't believe similarly.

Conservatives are always crying about the special treatment public workers get that those of us in the private sector don't. Try preaching the gospel in the break room at lunchtime next Monday. By Tuesday morning, somebody's going to have you in his office asking you to cool it with the Jesus stuff. That's what's being called for here. I specifically said this guy shouldn't be fired, only warned.

I have a big problem with university speech codes and testified publicly against them while here at the UW (You've done that, right, New Media Meade?). But I have no problem with a university telling an employee that he needs to take off his sweatshirt and step off the playing field when he wishes to exercise free speech rights on topics that have nothing to do with what he's paid to do.

Do you, Meade? Do you see the difference between that argument and the argument you cast above?
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Re: Nebraska coach outspoken against gays

Postby rrnate » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:39 pm

Meade wrote:I'm serious...


No, you're not. Your argument doesn't hold up at all and to think it does shows some kind of significant cognitive disability on your part.

(Jason makes the same point much more eloquently.)
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Re: Nebraska coach outspoken against gays

Postby Meade » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:47 pm

jjoyce wrote:This guy is using the platform created for him by his job [...] at a public university to preach.

People complained about that very same thing during Red Scare years. For example, professors teaching Marxist and socialist values were threatened with being fired. Some were fired.

jjoyce wrote:I have no problem with a university telling an employee that he needs to take off his sweatshirt and step off the playing field when he wishes to exercise free speech rights on topics that have nothing to do with what he's paid to do.

Brown offered a disclaimer after his 50-minute talk, saying his views did not necessarily reflect those of the university. Pamphlets in the pews referred to Brown as an “accomplished football coach” but made no mention of his ties to the Huskers.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/colleges/nebraska-assistant-coach-ron-brown-says-if-his-job-at-stake-for-his-anti-gay-stand-so-be-it/2012/04/25/gIQAt01EhT_story_1.html
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Re: Nebraska coach outspoken against gays

Postby snoqueen » Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:55 pm

Does this have to be cast as purely a religious matter? Just in time, here's something else to throw in the mix:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/29/opini ... l?_r=1&hp#

(nyt paywall alert)

Headline:
Homophobic? Maybe you're gay.

Our paper describes six studies conducted in the United States and Germany involving 784 university students. Participants rated their sexual orientation on a 10-point scale, ranging from gay to straight. Then they took a computer-administered test designed to measure their implicit sexual orientation.


...at least some who oppose homosexuality are likely to be individuals struggling against parts of themselves.... The costs are great, not only for the targets of anti-gay efforts but also often for the perpetrators. We would do well to remember that all involved deserve our compassion.
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Re: Nebraska coach outspoken against gays

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:00 pm

rrnate wrote: (though, of course, some of the maybe wiser folks here already have).


I think I blocked Meade quicker than I blocked Peanutbutter. That says a lot.

All you're going to get is "hey this is the fact. Doesn't matter if it's true." and then repeat, repeat, repeat until it somehow becomes true in their mind. Classic conservati... ooops, moderate thinking :roll:
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Re: Nebraska coach outspoken against gays

Postby jjoyce » Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:23 pm

Really? One WaPo link?

I expect more from New Media Meade!

Search YouTube for this clown. In nearly every video, he's literally preaching about Jesus on a football field, immediately after a Nebraska football game, wearing his UN logo gear. The only reason people care what he says about anything is that he coaches football at Nebraska. I coach football myself and I can't believe his boss lets him linger on the field after games talking about anything. Get in the damn locker room! Why do you think your thing is above the team's goals?

Is it your argument, Meade, that it's fine for public employees to drag their Christianity into the workplace, regardless of how hateful it gets? And if he says something really crazy (like it's okay to discriminate against gays or that gays have a problem similar to drug addiction), it's akin to McCarthyism to discipline him for it. I mean, that's what you're saying above, right?

But my guess is that you wouldn't be making the same argument if Brown was a gay activist and using his platform to rail against Christianity. People on this board would be going crazy that he got fired for speaking his mind and you'd be here telling everybody to chill out, that you can't just go out and say anything you want without expecting repercussions if you have a public job.
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Re: Nebraska coach outspoken against gays

Postby Igor » Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:13 pm

jjoyce wrote:Here's my parallel: An English professor shows up in class and, instead of lecturing about literature, talks about global warming. Or an engineering professor who looks at the messages from Ayn Rand's works. Or a softball coach who uses her post-game press conference to rail against the 1%.


I am not commenting on the topic at hand, but the above happened regularly to my kids in high school at Memorial. They certainly were quite aware of the political affiliation of many teachers.

By contrast, I worked on a presidential campaign at age 17, so I was fairly politically aware. I could not have told you the political affiliation of any of my teachers.
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