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The Big 14?

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Re: The Big 14?

Postby Igor » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:15 am

Rumor has it that a school with a stronger football program had the first chance to join. Unfortunately, Hartland Arrowhead is happy with their existing conference.
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Re: The Big 14?

Postby Michael Patrick » Tue Nov 20, 2012 8:49 am

Nate Silver doesn't think it is a good idea...

Many college football fans also travel to road games, which bolsters business for local restaurants and hotels. It’s about a three-hour drive from Madison, Wis., to Iowa City. But it’s 15 hours to College Park, Md., and more than 16 hours to New Brunswick, N.J.

The sacrifice might be worth making for games against Notre Dame, Texas or perhaps even Missouri. But the Eastern schools seem to reduce both the geographical integrity of the conference and the quality of the average Big Ten football game.

It is probably no coincidence that the two most popular college football conferences – the Southeastern and the Big Ten – have until now been the most conservative about expansion. The most recent additions to the Big Ten, Penn State and the University of Nebraska, ranked as the 3rd and 18th most popular football programs in the country. The newest additions to the Southeastern Conference, Texas A&M and Missouri, were ranked 6th and 23rd.

Rutgers and Maryland are outstanding public universities – but they are just not in the same league in terms of football.

The Big Ten may have expanded the size of its revenue pie, but it will be dividing it 14 ways rather than 12, and among family members that have less history of sitting down at the table with one another. In seeking to expand its footprint eastward, the conference may have taken a step in the wrong direction.
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Re: The Big 14?

Postby Huckleby » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:27 am

Stebben84 wrote:I could live with Nebraska because they're not too far away and still have that Midwestern feel. But having teams from the east coast would ruin the division in my opinion.


Ya, it totally ruins the Big Ten character. Who in WI will ever give a hot damn about Rutgers or Maryland?
Maybe it is time to dust-off Leon Varjian & Jim Mellon's idea from Pail & Shovel party: rename UW "The University of New Jersey" so WI students have the opportunity to attend a prestigous eastern school.

An even more disturbing move is the addition of West Virginia to the Big 12.
"Weessssssst Virginia! Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain ....."

I can't describe how disgusted I am at these cynical moves. Wisconsin had very competitive, traditional rivalries with Northwestern and Iowa; now they rarely play each other. You simply cannot replace the fun and intensity of hating your next-door-neighbor's team. You can't have a meaningful rivalry with a university that you can't make a weekend road trip to.
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Re: The Big 14?

Postby Right Bower » Tue Nov 20, 2012 11:00 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Maybe two more.

Is the Big Ten done adding?


• The Big Ten could stop at 14 teams or go all-in and expand to 16.

As I said before.
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Re: The Big 14?

Postby Beaver » Tue Nov 20, 2012 9:38 pm

I hate the expansion. They should have stayed 10. And I liked it best when UW (and Northwestern) were bad at sports, before Barry Alvarez and Bo Ryan ruined things. Ah the good ol days.
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Re: The Big 14?

Postby scratch » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:43 am

Beaver wrote:I hate the expansion. They should have stayed 10. And I liked it best when UW (and Northwestern) were bad at sports, before Barry Alvarez and Bo Ryan ruined things. Ah the good ol days.


Then you're likely not a fan of Mike White or Hayden Fry. Before they came to the Big 10 as head coaches, football was truly the Big 2 and the Little 8. Then Illinois and Iowa started _passing_ the ball! It was a revelation! Before then Purdue was the only Big 10 team allowed to pass a lot and Ohio State and Michigan finsihed first and second almost every year. Damn upstarts.
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Re: The Big 14?

Postby Huckleby » Wed Nov 21, 2012 11:36 am

This change could really suck for Bucky. If WI stays in the (mostly) eastern division, we are now going to be treated to annual games with Rutgers and Maryland. We already have to play sad sacks Purdue, Indiana and Minnesota every season. And this is AFTER the preseason cupcake fest. Forget frequent, exciting games with Michigan, Michigan State, Nebraska, Northwestern. Iowa.

So WI will have consistent 8+ win seasons against sub-mediocre teams. Big deal.

The idea behind adding Rutgers is that people in the New York/New Jersey market are going to subscribe to Big Ten Network TV. But will they? I've read that the regional interest in Rutgers is nil. NYC area people who care about college football, and it's mostly pro interest there, follow the SEC. And who could blame them?
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Re: The Big 14?

Postby TheBookPolice » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:09 pm

Since Delany reportedly said [looking for a link] that geography will likely play a stronger role in determining division allocation -- and going strictly by the map -- Wisconsin is among the 7 westernmost schools of the Big "Ten".

From west to east (non-cartographer here):

Nebraska
Minnesota
Iowa
Wisconsin
Illinois
Northwestern
Purdue

[[conferential divide]]

Indiana
Michigan State
Michigan
Ohio State
Penn State
Maryland
Rutgers

Still not what you'd call competitive balance, but there it is. Now, a north/south alignment...that'd be interesting.

From north to south (and I'm less sure of the order here, fwiw):

Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan State
Michigan
Northwestern
Iowa
Penn State

[[mason pigskin line]]

Rutgers
Nebraska
Purdue
Illinois
Ohio State
Maryland
Indiana
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Re: The Big 14?

Postby O.J. » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:18 pm

TheBookPolice wrote: Now, a north/south alignment...that'd be interesting.

From north to south (and I'm less sure of the order here, fwiw):

Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan State
Michigan
Northwestern
Iowa
Penn State

[[mason pigskin line]]

Rutgers
Nebraska
Purdue
Illinois
Ohio State
Maryland
Indiana


The North would be much, much stronger than the South, but it does make some sense. For Wisconsin, it would bring back their traditional rivalries. For the Big Ten, it would keep their dream alive of Ohio State and Michigan playing for the Conference Championship every year. Plus, they want to keep Rutgers and Maryland in the same division to try and create a little more buzz on the coast.
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Re: The Big 14?

Postby Huckleby » Wed Nov 21, 2012 12:23 pm

TheBookPolice wrote:Since Delany reportedly said [looking for a link] that geography will likely play a stronger role in determining division allocation

I saw the quote, but can't find a link now. Delany said very weakly that geography might be more of a consideration, he emphasized that geography won't be the top consideration. We all know the top consideration - maximizing TV revenues.

A purely geographical split would make the best of a crappy situation, but don't hold your breath. There is talk of adding two more east coast teams, Virginia and somebody else. I'd be thrilled if they formed an east coast division and stayed out of our hair. But they will want to keep a mix of traditional big 10 teams in both divisions.
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Re: The Big 14?

Postby scratch » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:08 pm

TheBookPolice wrote:From north to south (and I'm less sure of the order here, fwiw):
Minnesota
Wisconsin
Michigan State
Michigan
Northwestern
Iowa
Penn State

[[mason pigskin line]]

Rutgers
Nebraska
Purdue
Illinois
Ohio State
Maryland
Indiana


Swap Penn State and Nebraska and it makes good sense. I doubt if Nebraska wants to be left out on the far western end of the conference without strong ties to Iowa and Minnesota (and, preferably, Wisconsin), but can Delaney be trusted to do the right thing (whatever that is)? I doubt it. In the last expansion they made Purdue and Iowa a traditional (or protected or whatever) rivalry so that the Boilermakers and the Hawkeyes play every year across divisions, just like Ohio State and Michigan or Wisconsin and Minnesota. The only traditional rivalry Purdue and Iowa share is black & gold uniforms.
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Re: The Big 14?

Postby Igor » Wed Nov 21, 2012 1:22 pm

scratch wrote: In the last expansion they made Purdue and Iowa a traditional (or protected or whatever) rivalry so that the Boilermakers and the Hawkeyes play every year across divisions, just like Ohio State and Michigan or Wisconsin and Minnesota. The only traditional rivalry Purdue and Iowa share is black & gold uniforms.


They protected every single rivalry last time *except* Wisconsin/Iowa. Plus, as you said, creating some fake rivalries too.

I think that Alvarez wanted to be in with Minn, Iowa, and Nebraska, roughly in that order. The B1G essentially said it was more important to split the four "name" programs 2 and 2. My guess is that Barry said "since we get almost nothing that we wanted, you need to give us 4 free wins for the foreseeable future."
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Re: The Big 14?

Postby Beaver » Wed Nov 21, 2012 9:46 pm

scratch wrote:
Beaver wrote:I hate the expansion. They should have stayed 10. And I liked it best when UW (and Northwestern) were bad at sports, before Barry Alvarez and Bo Ryan ruined things. Ah the good ol days.


Then you're likely not a fan of Mike White or Hayden Fry. Before they came to the Big 10 as head coaches, football was truly the Big 2 and the Little 8. Then Illinois and Iowa started _passing_ the ball! It was a revelation! Before then Purdue was the only Big 10 team allowed to pass a lot and Ohio State and Michigan finsihed first and second almost every year. Damn upstarts.

Things haven't changed much since the pre-Alvarez era except UW and NW improved, especially UW. And Nebraska and Penn St were added. Otherwise, it's the same as it always was: MIch and OSU are the best, the others (Iowa, Ill, Minn, MSU, etc) are mediocre to bad.
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Re: The Big 14?

Postby Huckleby » Thu Nov 22, 2012 10:23 am

http://host.madison.com/sports/columnis ... f887a.html

Alvarez disputes the claim, but Maryland AD says the divisions have already been set in negotiations:

LEGENDS: Illinois, Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Minnesota, Nebraska, Northwestern

LEADERS: Indiana, Maryland, Ohio State, Penn State, Purdue, Rutgers, Wisconsin

How do you like them apples?
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Re: The Big 14?

Postby gargantua » Thu Nov 22, 2012 11:25 am

I don't like them at all. I'd like them a lot better if they could do something as simple as swap either Purdue or Indiana for Iowa, preferably, or Michigan State secondarily.
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