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Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Kenneth Burns » Tue Feb 11, 2014 3:47 pm

Huckleby wrote:what scares me is that statistically there is a gay poster in this thread

Statistically? Actually.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby narcoleptish » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:31 pm

Huckleby wrote:Rookie salaries are pretty lousy these days


Minimum base wage (not including bonuses) for an NFL rookie this year is 420K. Someone stop me before I send them a check for groceries.

It's funny how some random CEO that makes 12 million a year is pretty much vilified by us working stiffs even if we know nothing about them, but a piece of shit like Michael Vick can make that much for throwing a ball and that's A-okay.


Sorry for the jack.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Feb 11, 2014 5:38 pm

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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Huckleby » Tue Feb 11, 2014 6:12 pm

narcoleptish wrote:Minimum base wage (not including bonuses) for an NFL rookie this year is 420K. Someone stop me before I send them a check for groceries.
That's terrible pay compared to other major sports, and the NFL is the big money machine.

The point was that the rookie salary cap has reduced the significance of draft position, players make the dough if and when they get a second contract. So the theory that Sam lost a lot of money by coming out is baloney.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby O.J. » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:27 pm

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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby rabble » Wed Feb 12, 2014 3:47 pm

O.J. wrote:What he said.

Wow. That's some powerful stuff.

Stewart said much the same thing last night or the night before but Hansen said it better.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby ilikebeans » Wed Feb 12, 2014 6:46 pm

rabble wrote:Stewart said much the same thing last night or the night before but Hansen said it better.

Especially since he's not necessarily preaching to the choir.

Bravo, Mr. Hansen!
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby snoqueen » Wed Feb 12, 2014 7:12 pm

Nice job.

And I love the way he chose to wear a lavender flowered tie to make his speech. You can be powerful and still have a twinkle in your eye.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:04 pm

Re: Michael Sam.

To me, the steady trickle of 'out' players is a lot of distraction and worse, just a way to inject artificial importance to a player that hasn't earned it yet. I see the new "bold" trend as basic opportunism.
Like Jason Collins, gay basketball player, it's just a way to generate positive advocates (all you nuts) for players and negative consequences (media backlash) for teams.

If that player somehow does not get a contract (Collins), gets fired (Chris Kluwe/Vikings), or doesn't get picked at the top of the draft (Michael Sam/NFL), then it's not because the NFL is a meritocracy and you get drafted where you're scouted. Instead, the tedious, tired, predictable story will be that Michael Sam fell to the 2nd or the 3rd or 4th round of the draft because he is gay.

Already if you read the most politically tinged articles about Sam progressive activist writers are gifting Sam with the free propaganda that he's "the best/one of the best", top players entering the league in 2014.

Then, if Michael Sam doesn't get picked until the 3rd or 4th round, the headline will be, "NFL Snubs Openly Gay Top Draft Pick; falls to 108th pick, over all."

Then, if Michael Sam doesn't get to be a starter in the first year, in the first games, the headline will be, "Patriots Snub Openly Gay Top Rookie in favor of Heterosexual Veteran." Nevermind that he doesn't know the scheme yet.

He's pretty great. Hopefully he has a great career. If progs want to really do the guy a favor, they should just STFU and let him have a regular old meritocracy based career, like every other player in the league.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby rabble » Sat Feb 22, 2014 10:27 pm

Bludgeon wrote:If that player somehow does not get a contract (Collins), gets fired (Chris Kluwe/Vikings), or doesn't get picked at the top of the draft (Michael Sam/NFL), then it's not because the NFL is a meritocracy and you get drafted where you're scouted. Instead, the tedious, tired, predictable story will be that Michael Sam fell to the 2nd or the 3rd or 4th round of the draft because he is gay.

I am shamefully ignorant in this arena but a couple of people who are supposed to be informed told me they expected Sam to be first, second, or third round before he came out and they would have been mildly surprised if he was first. They said he'd have to drop to fifth before they figured his gayness was a factor.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Huckleby » Sun Feb 23, 2014 12:58 am

Bludgeon wrote:I see the new "bold" trend as basic opportunism.
Like Jason Collins, gay basketball player, it's just a way to generate positive advocates (all you nuts) for players and negative consequences (media backlash) for teams.

You might have a point that there is an element of grandstanding by some players. For instance, why did Collins wait until his career was essentially done? But I wouldn't pass judgement on him or any individual, I don't know their motives and pressures.
Your theory that people are anti-team is nutty.

Bludgeon wrote:If that player somehow does not get a contract (Collins), gets fired (Chris Kluwe/Vikings), or doesn't get picked at the top of the draft (Michael Sam/NFL), then it's not because the NFL is a meritocracy and you get drafted where you're scouted. Instead, the tedious, tired, predictable story will be that Michael Sam fell to the 2nd or the 3rd or 4th round of the draft because he is gay.

You are the one with the unreasoned, knee-jerk reaction: you declare the NFL to be a meritocracy, case (and mind) closed. Conservatives and liberals both want the NFL to function as a meritocracy.

Open gays in the NFL is brand new and controversial. What's wrong with taking an objective look at these early test cases?

BTW, do you think pro baseball and football functioned as fair meritocracies in the early years of black participation?
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:10 am

rabble wrote:I am shamefully ignorant in this arena but a couple of people who are supposed to be informed told me they expected Sam to be first, second, or third round before he came out and they would have been mildly surprised if he was first. They said he'd have to drop to fifth before they figured his gayness was a factor.


I've seen anywhere from third to fifth before he came out. mmqb.com (which has an very liberal head writer) had someone review all of his tape from the last year, and there were a lot of questions about his play. Not that he isn't NFL capable, but that he isn't someone you would spend a high round draft pick on. Most of his big plays this season came against Vanderbilt, Arkansas st and Florida. All of whom were rather unimpressive this year. That said, the guy who reviewed the tape hasn't really impressed me with his analysis over the past year so take all of that with a grain of salt.

Most likely Sam is going to end up being a development project to turn him from a DE to OLB, which probably would keep any team from grabbing him too early anyway.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Huckleby » Sun Feb 23, 2014 2:32 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote: Most of his big plays this season came against Vanderbilt, Arkansas st and Florida .... Most likely Sam is going to end up being a development project to turn him from a DE to OLB, which probably would keep any team from grabbing him too early anyway.


The coaches in the SEC voted Sam the best defensive player, at any position, in the league. At the college level at least, he's not a good player, he's a great one. Ya, he got his sacks clustered against those weak sisters, but the coaches surely know that and included it in their determination. They know what they are talking about.

Sam has so-so speed for rush linebacker in pros, so he is a mid-round pick rather than early round. But I wouldn't call him a project, even tho he is switching positions. (I know I'm splitting hairs, here. But a "project" usually refers to a guy who doesn't have the specific skills, and Sam is good-to-go. He was a very athletic and quick DE who will adapt easily to 3-4. )
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Sun Feb 23, 2014 8:56 am

Huckleby wrote:The coaches in the SEC voted Sam the best defensive player, at any position, in the league. At the college level at least, he's not a good player, he's a great one. Ya, he got his sacks clustered against those weak sisters, but the coaches surely know that and included it in their determination. They know what they are talking about.


That's got me a bit confused as well tbh. Based on that review, he's not even the top defensive lineman on his own team. I don't think the reviewer is infallible, but the fact that he only played 58% of defensive snaps does make me wonder how good his coach thought he was. If you have the best defensive player in your conference, you find a way to get him into the game more, especially on crucial drives.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Huckleby » Sun Feb 23, 2014 10:55 am

We are wrong to think of a "mid round draft pick" as an average prospect. Back in the 60's, the NFL draft went for 20 rounds. Now the draft is much more scientific, the handful of players each team takes have been thoroughly researched. All the players who get drafted are pretty much stud prospects. Nearly every drafted Packer makes the roster, and the very few who get cut the first year wind up as nfl prospects on a practice somewhere.

Of course lots of players wash-out after a couple years.
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