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Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Sun Feb 23, 2014 11:45 am

Huckleby wrote:Back in the 60's, the NFL draft went for 20 rounds..


don't give Goodell any ideas. I'm sure he could find a way to make that worth televising.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Bludgeon » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:32 am

Huckleby wrote:Sam has so-so speed for rush linebacker in pros, so he is a mid-round pick rather than early round. But I wouldn't call him a project, even tho he is switching positions. (I know I'm splitting hairs, here. But a "project" usually refers to a guy who doesn't have the specific skills, and Sam is good-to-go. He was a very athletic and quick DE who will adapt easily to 3-4. )


Jeez don't count your chickens before they hatch, or anything. Oh wait, too late. Alright, so what happens after he wins defensive rookie of the year? Iron man?
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby O.J. » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:13 am

Huck, what makes you so sure that he can handle the move to OLB, especially since he struggled with that at the Senior Bowl? Can he adapt to playing without his hand down? Can he tackle in space? Can he drop back in coverage? If he proves that he can't, then he'll mainly be a situational pass rusher(although, with how much defenses are using sub packages these days, those players have increasing value).

He's a classic tweener, and, in general, it will come down to how well he fits in a team's scheme. I'm a Patriots fan and don't think they would hesitate to draft him if they thought he would help the team, but Belichick pretty much demands that his OLB's are 6'3"+ and his rush ends even taller. These are legitimate on-the-field concerns that will prevent him from being drafted in a spot commensurate with his collegiate achievements.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Huckleby » Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:42 am

O.J. wrote:Huck, what makes you so sure that he can handle the move to OLB, especially since he struggled with that at the Senior Bowl?

I don't expect a player to shine the first week he tries a new position.

I am not sure that Sam will make a good nfl player. He comes in matching Nick Perry's profile, who was drafted very high, and that hasn't gone so well. Nick Perry took a year before he was even competent at position, jury still out on whether he can become more than a guy.

The best defensive player in the SEC knows how to play football. He is very athletic. If he fails, it won't be because of the demands of OLB, IMO. There is a lot of overlap with how Sam was used in college.

O.J. wrote:These are legitimate on-the-field concerns that will prevent him from being drafted in a spot commensurate with his collegiate achievements.

Kind of a Captain Obvious statement there.

Going back 50 years, most NFL team bring 30 or so new players into camp every year, and they keep up to 10. The top 7 draft picks are all excellent NFL prospects. You forget how nit-picky the draft analysis is. It's not that the shortcomings pointed-out are wrong, but most players have significant shortcomings.

I think Sam compares with Chris Borland. Either could be an NFL washout in two years. They have obvious flaws that drop them in the draft. But either could be all-pros because they have an intangible knack for the game.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby O.J. » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:05 am

Huckleby wrote:I am not sure that Sam will make a good nfl player. He comes in matching Nick Perry's profile, who was drafted very high, and that hasn't gone so well. Nick Perry took a year before he was even competent at position, jury still out on whether he can become more than a guy.


That's essentially my point, Huck. Why do you think that Sam can "easily" make the switch to OLB, when someone who had a much higher draft grade attached to him is struggling to do the same?

And just because a guy was extremely productive in college doesn't mean that success awaits him in the NFL. Just ask Ron Dayne or Tom Burke, for some local examples. Heck, here's the list of Heisman winners in the 8 years after Dayne(Chris Weinke, Eric Crouch, Carson Palmer, Jason White, Matt Leinart, Troy Smith, Sam Bradford, Mark Ingram). These guys were considered the very best in all of college and Carson Palmer is the only one that has had even a decent career. There's a HUGE difference from the college game to the pros, especially when a position change is necessary.

I guess I just don't see why you would think he would have such an easy time adapting to the switch. And I hope I'm dead wrong, because I wish nothing but the best for this kid.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Huckleby » Mon Feb 24, 2014 11:52 am

O.J. wrote:I guess I just don't see why you would think he would have such an easy time adapting to the switch.


IMO, it's the NFL that will bite him, not the position switch. We're splitting hairs. He does not look like a stiff player, he looks very athletic, like Borland. I don't know if he is fast enough to excel in nfl.

BTW, I never thought Aaron Kampman would make it in 3-4. Nick Perry looks a little too stiff.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby O.J. » Mon Feb 24, 2014 12:27 pm

Huckleby wrote: I don't know if he is fast enough to excel in nfl.


Yeah, he just ran disappointing 40 times of 4.79/4.84(Jadeveon Clowney ran 4.47/4.48, check him for 'roids). As someone known primarily as a pass rusher, he'll have to improve on that at his pro day if he want to be a mid-round pick.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:38 pm

Bludgeon wrote:If that player somehow does not get a contract (Collins)...

Update, Collins just got a contract. He is now playing for the Brooklyn Nets of the NBA.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby O.J. » Mon Feb 24, 2014 2:45 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Bludgeon wrote:If that player somehow does not get a contract (Collins)...

Update, Collins just got a contract. He is now playing for the Brooklyn Nets of the NBA.


I wonder if Prokhorov sent a press release to Putin.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Bludgeon » Mon Feb 24, 2014 6:19 pm

Huckleby wrote:BTW, I never thought Aaron Kampman would make it in 3-4. Nick Perry looks a little too stiff.


Nick Perry's career has been sort of heartbreaking. Physically, he should be the perfect OLB, he's physically equivalent to Aldon Smith with a faster 40 yard dash time. He's had some great games but he's just been essentially ravaged with injury. Every time he would get comfortable and start blowing up the line, his foot would go out again. I will be happy if he can just play healthy and get into his game in 2014.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Huckleby » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:02 pm

Bludgeon wrote:Nick Perry's career has been sort of heartbreaking. Physically, he should be the perfect OLB, he's physically equivalent to Aldon Smith with a faster 40 yard dash


There are physical attributes that aren't often measured. A flexible torso, coordination, balance. I think a great end/olb might also be good at ballet. You notice how Clay Matthews is practically acrobatic, he's able to bend his body, lean low to the ground, move cat-quick, and keep total body control. He's amazing sometimes.

Nick Perry has power and speed, but I'm not sure he has the athleticism of an Aldon Smith. You're right it has been one injury after another. From my glimpses of Sam, he looks athletic.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby Bludgeon » Mon Feb 24, 2014 7:57 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Bludgeon wrote:Nick Perry's career has been sort of heartbreaking. Physically, he should be the perfect OLB, he's physically equivalent to Aldon Smith with a faster 40 yard dash


There are physical attributes that aren't often measured. A flexible torso, coordination, balance. I think a great end/olb might also be good at ballet. You notice how Clay Matthews is practically acrobatic, he's able to bend his body, lean low to the ground, move cat-quick, and keep total body control. He's amazing sometimes.

Nick Perry has power and speed, but I'm not sure he has the athleticism of an Aldon Smith. You're right it has been one injury after another. From my glimpses of Sam, he looks athletic.

His foot definitely doesn't have the athleticism of an Aldon Smith. I give any NFL player all the credit in the world for what it takes to even be in that position, I hope Sam does great. The real beauty of the game for me is that besides those first 1-7 guys, you really just never know.

I like that because it shows that it's a physical game and athletic ability counts, but it's the mentality that really takes you forward.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby O.J. » Tue Feb 25, 2014 9:06 am

Huckleby wrote:
O.J. wrote:I guess I just don't see why you would think he would have such an easy time adapting to the switch.


IMO, it's the NFL that will bite him, not the position switch. We're splitting hairs. He does not look like a stiff player, he looks very athletic, like Borland.


Hopefully he just had a really, really poor combine.

Between the mediocre 40-yard dash for Sam and a 25.5" vertical, it wasn't a strong showing for the Missouri All-American, although he wasn't expected to put up anything close to Clowney's numbers. Instead most of the focus from the NFL Network commenters was on his "stiff hips."


And John Clayton had this to say, presumably from his mother's basement:

. If Michael Sam drops in draft, it won't be because of his announcement: Though he was impressive talking Saturday, Sam didn't wow anyone with his workouts Monday. He ran a 4.91 40. His vertical was also disappointing at 25½ inches. Before the combine, Sam announced he was gay. He held up well during his Saturday interview with the media. Sam did say that he was asked only football questions during his interviews with teams. Everyone is rooting for him to be judged as a football player. Based on his numbers Monday, though, he might not go as high as he would like. Because he is considered more of a situational pass-rusher, his value is between the fourth and sixth rounds. A good workout could have put him into the third round. But the lack of speed and explosiveness could push him down the draft board. He showed he could be projected as a pass-rusher and core special-teams player.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby O.J. » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:16 pm

I'm surprised it took this long for the Grand Old Bigots to respond.
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Re: Finally, a gay football player, and it's a

Postby rabble » Tue Feb 25, 2014 2:44 pm

O.J. wrote:I'm surprised it took this long for the Grand Old Bigots to respond.

Heh. That lobbyist's gay kid brother has a few choice words.
Dr. Jim Burkman, an anesthesiologist from Seattle, sharply criticized his lobbyist brother Jack in an interview on Monday night, accusing him of engineering a media spectacle to draw clients to his business.

“I think the idea that he is pushing legislation that is just hurtful and ridiculous is just plain stupid,” said Jim Burkman. “He is not a legislator and he can’t really push legislation. I don’t think there are any cosponsors for a bill. It is just an attention grab and a media grab to pander to those folks who pay him to lobby on their behalf.
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