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Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby wallrock » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:18 am

pjbogart wrote:If Andersen had just instructed Stave to spike the ball and sent on the field goal unit we wouldn't be having this conversation.

We'd be screaming for French's head when he missed it.

I'm sure there would be plenty of people claiming Andersen fucked up by not having the ball centered with 18 seconds left in that scenario.
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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby Huckleby » Mon Sep 16, 2013 9:51 am

O.J. wrote:Mike Pereira or Bill Carollo. When the Pac12 reviews the situation today, I expect a similar response.


There is no doubt that the refs didn't do a good job. That is not in dispute. But that is oh-so-easy to see in hindsight. In real time, their confusion really wasn't all that prolonged, and was caused by Stave's blunder.

It was a home field deal where the refs didn't want to review the final seconds of the game. That's the part I don't get, every play is reviewed upstairs except the last one?

But one more time: the Badgers also screwed themselves, and fans should focus on that. The Badgers put pressure on the refs to perform well in a confusing time crunch.
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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby fisticuffs » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:05 am

Huckleby wrote:
O.J. wrote:Mike Pereira or Bill Carollo. When the Pac12 reviews the situation today, I expect a similar response.


There is no doubt that the refs didn't do a good job. That is not in dispute. But that is oh-so-easy to see in hindsight. In real time, their confusion really wasn't all that prolonged, and was caused by Stave's blunder.

It was a home field deal where the refs didn't want to review the final seconds of the game. That's the part I don't get, every play is reviewed upstairs except the last one?

But one more time: the Badgers also screwed themselves, and fans should focus on that. The Badgers put pressure on the refs to perform well in a confusing time crunch.


Their confusion wasn't Stave's fault. Putting the ball down, well after the knee, after the whistle, is not a boneheaded move. It's a perfectly legal one. Laying on the dead ball is a penalty. This is on the refs. They messed up, not the Badgers.
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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby O.J. » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:08 am

Huck, that play wasn't reviewable:

Mike Pereira ✔ @MikePereira

Nothing in that WISC-ASU sequence was reviewable

This is a great summary of what actually happened on the field.
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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby fisticuffs » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:17 am

I don't think "let's go out there and not confuse the refs with totally legal and common football plays" has ever been uttered by a football coach.
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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby Huckleby » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:17 am

fisticuffs wrote: Their confusion wasn't Stave's fault. Putting the ball down, well after the knee, after the whistle, is not a boneheaded move.


OK, so it would be stupid to hand the ball directly to the ref so he can quickly and directly get the next play started? I am unable to see this.

I suggest you take-up your argument directly with Stave, who has acknowledged his mistake.
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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby Huckleby » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:21 am

fisticuffs wrote:I don't think "let's go out there and not confuse the refs with totally legal and common football plays"


Common? LOL. I have never seen a QB in pro or college run a hurry-up by doing a barely perceptible kneel down, then attempting to spot the ball himself. Guess those other QBs who hand the ball to the ref are missing-out on a good thing.

It also would have been legal for Stave to reverse field and run 90 yards into his own endzone. Lots of legal options to consider.
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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby O.J. » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:24 am

Huck, there wasn't an official within 5 yards of Stave when he kneeled down. It would have taken more time off the clock to get the ball to the official, then have the official figure out the correct spot.
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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby O.J. » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:27 am

Huckleby wrote:
fisticuffs wrote:I don't think "let's go out there and not confuse the refs with totally legal and common football plays"


Common? LOL. I have never seen a QB in pro or college run a hurry-up by doing a barely perceptible kneel down, then attempting to spot the ball himself. Guess those other QBs who hand the ball to the ref are missing-out on a good thing.

It also would have been legal for Stave to reverse field and run 90 yards into his own endzone. Lots of legal options to consider.


The college rule on kneel downs is different from the NFL. The ball is ruled down if a runner simply SIMULATES the act of kneeling down, i.e. he can't fake a kneel, then get up and start running.
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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby Huckleby » Mon Sep 16, 2013 10:38 am

O.J. wrote: The ball is ruled down if a runner simply SIMULATES the act of kneeling down

Ya, that rule has been explained many times since the incident. What Stave did was not smart, it left an opening for confusion. You want the ball in the ref's hands. Players don't get to spot the ball.
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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby gargantua » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:36 am

I really have a tough time with the argument that it was the Badger's fault (be it Stave or Coach Anderson) for putting the officials in a difficult position.

You can't be serious. They're adults, right? They're paid to do a job, right? If they did their job the way it is supposed to be done, we'd have had a chance to make or miss a field goal attempt, and no one from either team would be complaining about the officials.

End of game hurry up situations are common at every level of football, so this should not have put any undue pressure on these officials.
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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby fisticuffs » Mon Sep 16, 2013 11:54 am

gargantua wrote:I really have a tough time with the argument that it was the Badger's fault (be it Stave or Coach Anderson) for putting the officials in a difficult position.

You can't be serious. They're adults, right? They're paid to do a job, right? If they did their job the way it is supposed to be done, we'd have had a chance to make or miss a field goal attempt, and no one from either team would be complaining about the officials.

End of game hurry up situations are common at every level of football, so this should not have put any undue pressure on these officials.


Yeah no one on that field should have been confused about what the Badgers were doing in that last 18 seconds.
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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby O.J. » Mon Sep 16, 2013 1:03 pm

The Pac12 admits the officials screwed up. Shockingly, they don't put the onus on Joel Stave for creating mass confusion for the refs.
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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby Huckleby » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:17 pm

gargantua wrote:I really have a tough time with the argument that it was the Badger's fault (be it Stave or Coach Anderson) for putting the officials in a difficult position.


I wouldn't agree with an argument put that way either. Stave screwed-up unarguably, people who won't concede that point are being irrational. It is not common practice, nor was it in the Badger's interests, for the player to spot the ball.

It was also foolish to attempt to squeeze another play into the last 18 seconds, too many things can go wrong, especially a game-ending procedure penalty: bad risk/reward ratio. But on this point there is reasonable argument both ways.

The refs made a mistake. Stave opened the door for the confusion with his blunder.

This is a chicken or egg debate. Nobody is denying that the refs were stumbling and slow. If you want to focus just on that point and dismiss the Badger foolishness that was at the root of the fiasco, join about 2/3 of Badger fans.
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Re: Badger fans: "We was robbed!"

Postby fisticuffs » Mon Sep 16, 2013 3:21 pm

Huckleby wrote:
gargantua wrote:I really have a tough time with the argument that it was the Badger's fault (be it Stave or Coach Anderson) for putting the officials in a difficult position.


I wouldn't agree with an argument put that way either. Stave screwed-up unarguably, people who won't concede that point are being irrational. It is not common practice, nor was it in the Badger's interests, for the player to spot the ball.

It was also foolish to attempt to squeeze another play into the last 18 seconds, too many things can go wrong, especially a game-ending procedure penalty: bad risk/reward ratio. But on this point there is reasonable argument both ways.

The refs made a mistake. Stave opened the door for the confusion with his blunder.

This is a chicken or egg debate. Nobody is denying that the refs were stumbling and slow. If want to focus just on that point and dismiss the Badger foolishness that was at the root of the fiasco, join about 2/3 of Badger fans.


I can concede that it wasn't the best idea to spot the ball but that rarely would lead to any negative consequence as it seemed to here. it shouldn't have. But I can't concede that with 18 seconds on the clock there was a lot of risk in running the play to center the kick. 18 seconds is an eternity in football, two eternities in college football.
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