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Benghazi

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Benghazi

Postby Leroy Gates » Sat May 11, 2013 10:29 am

"JPS said...
Jay, quoting Mrs. Clinton:

"We’ve seen the heavy assault on our post in Benghazi that took the lives of those brave men. We’ve seen rage and violence directed at American embassies over an awful internet video that we had nothing to do with."

Her defenders - and she herself, if pressed - will try to get Bill-Clinton-cute and say that both statements are independently true, and that she never directly said the video caused the attack at Benghazi, and that if people are trying to link these two sentences in a cause-and-effect way, that's on them.

So it's not a lie! See how clever I am?

Bill could get away with that sort of thing. With Hillary it kind of falls flat.

comment from Althouse Blog
5/10/13, 2:44 PM
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=6329595&postID=3754628139586226343
Last edited by Leroy Gates on Sat May 11, 2013 10:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Benghazi

Postby Leroy Gates » Sat May 11, 2013 10:30 am

david cohen wrote:I still say "show me the crime".

Image
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Re: Benghazi

Postby Meade » Sat May 11, 2013 11:08 am

Huckleby wrote:
bdog wrote:Hillary has 2 l's.


Lesbian assistants as lovers? That canard has been debunked.

Perhaps. But one thing IS beyond dispute: Heather has 2 mommies.
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Re: Benghazi

Postby Donald » Sat May 11, 2013 11:28 am

At the time of the attack, the Benghazi "consulate" was more of a CIA operation than a State Department operation. Obviously, it had some State Department cover, and State was trying to up its presence there.
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Re: Benghazi

Postby Meade » Sat May 11, 2013 11:54 am

Donald wrote:At the time of the attack, the Benghazi "consulate" was more of a CIA operation than a State Department operation. Obviously, it had some State Department cover, and State was trying to up its presence there.

That is a good point. The real "political nit-picking" might've been between not Dems and Reps but CIA and State Dept.

Here's a larger point: What were we even doing in Libya? Remember - Obama never went before Congress to get authorization to intervene and use military force in the Libyan Civil War. Many, here in the U.S., on the left, considered Obama's actions illegal. http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/opini ... .html?_r=0
President Obama has failed to request Congressional approval for military action, as required by the War Powers Act of 1973. The legal machinations Mr. Obama has used to justify war without Congressional consent set a troubling precedent that could allow future administrations to wage war at their convenience — free of legislative checks and balances.

This pre-emptive move was not unprecedented. During George W. Bush’s administration, shortly after 9/11, the White House counsel, Alberto R. Gonzales, led an ad hoc war council that included State and Defense Department officials. It was in this hyper-politicized setting that John Yoo, representing the Office of Legal Counsel, prepared his notorious “torture memos” for President Bush’s approval.

The players are different this time around, but the dynamic is the same. Mr. Obama is creating a decisive and dangerous precedent for the next commander in chief, who is unlikely to have the Harvard Law Review on his résumé.

Although Mr. Yoo’s memos made a mockery of the applicable law, they at least had the approval of the Office of Legal Counsel. In contrast, Mr. Obama’s decision to disregard that office’s opinion and embrace the White House counsel’s view is undermining a key legal check on arbitrary presidential power.

If the precedent Mr. Obama has created is allowed to stand, future presidents who do not like what the Justice Department is telling them could simply cite the example of Mr. Obama’s war in Libya and instruct the White House counsel to organize a supportive “coalition of the willing” made up of the administration’s top lawyers. Even if just one or two agreed, this would be enough to push ahead and claim that the law was on the president’s side.

If Congress does not act, the Constitution’s command that the president “take Care that the Laws be faithfully executed” will become nothing more than an unfulfilled hope on an old piece of parchment.

Bruce Ackerman, a professor of law and political science at Yale, is the author of “The Decline and Fall of the American Republic.”
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Re: Benghazi

Postby Meade » Sat May 11, 2013 12:12 pm

Related
Libyan Media Minders Nervous After Guard Death (June 21, 2011)
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/21/world ... ef=opinion
NATO Admits Missile Hit a Civilian Home in Tripoli (June 20, 2011)
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/06/20/world ... ef=opinion
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Re: Benghazi

Postby Sandi » Sat May 11, 2013 3:11 pm

david cohen:
Were they covering something up or just reacting to an unfortunate incident that made them look bad?

bdog:
Why not a little bit of each? Isn't a part of spin control covering up what makes you look bad? This is true of any politician.

Huckleby
This is what makes the Benghazi story so vexing. Of course they were spinning! They wanted to de-emphasize "terrorist attack" for political purposes.


Well it is nice to see the left here is starting to wake up, albeit tentatively. A day ago, it was all right wing lies.
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Re: Benghazi

Postby snoqueen » Sat May 11, 2013 3:33 pm

So do you, Sandi-Born-Yesterday, think it is

a) unseemly;

b) unusual;

c) criminal;

e) unreasonable;

d) or what

that politicians (on both sides of the aisle) spin things?

I still don't see why any of this is a big deal. It is having no effect at all on improving security at embassies and other foreign service posts from what I can tell. That's what should be re-evaluated. We could also discuss whether we need these middle east posts at all, but the screaming would be deafening and you know it. The entire right-wing blogosphere would be yelling about global terrorists.

What do you think should be re-evaluated? Should we create even more middle eastern foreign service and CIA posts (which are supposed to be classified, but never mind)? Would you vote to fund them? What questions would you want the administration to be considering?

Or do you want to just keep yelling about some sort of spin that happened months ago while ignoring other spin that goes on, in both parties, every day? It's like you just discovered there are minerals in your water, minerals that have been there since the beginning of time, and suddenly you decide somebody's plotting to poison you.

And while you're at it, why is it better/more exciting/whatever if the people who murdered Ambassador Stevens get called terrorists or not? I can't even figure out if you think it's better or worse that way. Does this have real world implications for anything at all?
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Re: Benghazi

Postby david cohen » Sat May 11, 2013 3:55 pm

Still no answer regarding what crime Obama or HiLLary committed. What we do know is that this was a CIA operation with some modicum of diplomatic cover. Bottom line: Americans died and no one is sure who, if anyone, could have prevented said deaths. The GOP just wants to keep it humming as long as possible. After all, it's Bennnnn-Ghaziiiiiii!
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Re: Benghazi

Postby bdog » Sat May 11, 2013 4:06 pm

david cohen wrote:HiLLary

Was it too much to ask that you spell her name right?
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Re: Benghazi

Postby david cohen » Sat May 11, 2013 4:35 pm

yup....thee is ths thng caLLed a keybord and sumtimes da digits don wrk jst exacty perfct..no wil one of you fulks tell me what crime was committed?
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Re: Benghazi

Postby Detritus » Sat May 11, 2013 5:01 pm

david cohen wrote:yup....thee is ths thng caLLed a keybord and sumtimes da digits don wrk jst exacty perfct..no wil one of you fulks tell me what crime was committed?

DWD (Driving While Democrat).
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Re: Benghazi

Postby Sandi » Sat May 11, 2013 5:16 pm

david cohen wrote:Still no answer regarding what crime Obama or HiLLary committed.


I am not aware that anyone ( at least on this forum ) has accused Obama or Hillary of a crime: only a coverup. An that isn't directed at Obama that I know of, only Hillary.
Last edited by Sandi on Sat May 11, 2013 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Benghazi

Postby Leroy Gates » Sat May 11, 2013 5:16 pm

So David Cohen, you are Ok with incompetence as long as it's not criminal?
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Re: Benghazi

Postby snoqueen » Sat May 11, 2013 5:53 pm

If you claim someone was incompetent you also have to say who it was and what they did or did not do. You haven't done that yet.

It might also help to say who covered up what, since you're throwing that word around.

We can't decide if something is OK or not until we know exactly what it was, you see.

I mean, I could post all day saying you are incompetent, but if I didn't say how or in what manner, it wouldn't mean much.

Well, then, same with any other incompetence. Come on, give it a try.
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