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Confessions of a Torturer

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Postby Marvell » Mon Mar 05, 2007 6:54 pm

The Tolerator wrote:However, Marvell's last post does beg the question. What does an insurgent deserve?


And what does an innocent man falsely labeled 'an insurgent' and tortured by an unaccountable security apparatus deserve? Apparently not justice, as that was just denied him.

Your pompous declarations of the moral high ground are, as usual, intellectually bankrupt and ethically debased. Furthermore, they are deeply and profoundly at odds with the legal underpinnings of the nation you claim to love.

Which makes you a hypocrite and an ass, as well as a pathological liar. It's a trifecta of twitterpation!
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Postby massimo » Mon Mar 05, 2007 7:19 pm

The Tolerator wrote:Everyone on this thread is absolutely killing me. My response was only made at Massimo's stupid request. He asked for it, so I gave it to him.

As I said, I expected nothing less. You didn't, however, call the guy in the article a traitor, which surprises me.
However, Marvell's last post does beg the question. What does an insurgent deserve? As currently define insurgents are terrorists that target not just military and police personnel, but also innocent Men, Women and children. So what does an insurgent who maims innocent children deserve? Do they deserve our understanding? Our money? Or do they deserve a noose or a bullet?

As Marvell has already asked, what do the innocent deserve? Because they apparently receive the same treatment as terrorists.
On the continuum torture is so much more human than the what the insurgents deserve.

This isn't about what your insurgents deserve, it's about what innocent people, painted as insurgents by some arbitrarily large brush, deserve.

I didn't expect the Ned's or Tolerator's to give a shit, since to them everybody in Iraq is an "insurgent"-- there are no innocent. I should thank them for so convincingly confirming this.
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Postby Marvell » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:39 pm

massimo wrote:I didn't expect the Ned's or Tolerator's to give a shit, since to them everybody in Iraq is an "insurgent"-- there are no innocent. I should thank them for so convincingly confirming this.


Hey, man - if they were innocent they would have had the good sense to be born in America, instead of Towelheadistan.

"Inside of every gook is an American, trying to get out."

- Full Metal Jacket
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Postby Ducatista » Mon Mar 05, 2007 9:45 pm

Marvell wrote:"Inside of every gook is an American, trying to get out."

- Full Metal Jacket

Whoa. I have to go back and watch that one again. I thought it was "Inside of every geek is an American..."

Sounded kinda cute, kinda 80s. Your version, not so much.
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Postby lordofthecockrings » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:33 pm

massimo wrote: I didn't expect the Ned's or Tolerator's to give a shit, since to them everybody in Iraq is an "insurgent"

That is a micharacherization of there position.
Not EVERYBODY in Iraq is an insurgent - only the Arabs and the Muslims are.
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Postby massimo » Mon Mar 05, 2007 11:55 pm

Heh. Only after seeing you guys quoting what I wrote a couple times have I realized that the apostrophes I used are completely stupid. Let me just go grammar nazi on myself and say "Neds and Tolerators" instead of "Ned's and Tolerator's."

n00b.
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From the 'just how stupid do they think we are?' department

Postby Marvell » Mon Mar 12, 2007 9:21 pm

More good news on the authoritarian contempt for oversight and transparancy front - the Bush administration has a Rosemary Woods moment in the Padilla case.

Authorities made 88 video recordings of Padilla being interrogated during the 3 1/2 years he was held at the brig as an "enemy combatant," officials said. Eighty-seven tapes have been given to the defense, leaving only the last session unaccounted for.

"I don't know what happened to it," Pentagon attorney James Schmidli said during a recent court hearing.

U.S. District Judge Marcia Cooke was incredulous that anything connected to such a high-profile defendant could be lost.

"Do you understand how it might be difficult for me to understand that a tape related to this particular individual just got mislaid?" Cooke told prosecutors at a hearing last month.


But wait - it gets better:

Defense lawyers say brig logs indicate that there were 72 hours of Padilla interviews that either were not taped or for which tapes may be missing. Natale said it seems unlikely that any interrogation session with Padilla was not videotaped "when he was videoed taking showers."
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Postby Chief Mongo » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:54 pm

lordofthecockrings wrote:
The Tolerator wrote:What's worse, to be thrown into a super air conditioned room or to blow an innocent kid's arms off?

What cocksuckers like you always forget is that two wrongs don't make a right. It doesn't matter which is WORSE - both are WRONG. By definition there is no justification for doing things that are WRONG.

See that's where all you â??2 wrongs don't make a rightâ?Â
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Postby AlphaLiberal » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:12 pm

Hey, Tolerator, you seem to be a person of strong beliefs.

So why don't you sign up to fight the war you think is so important?
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Postby Mike S. » Wed Mar 14, 2007 10:54 am

The claim that everybody does it is an out-and-out lie. Ask any grandparent who was in World War II - they'll tell you the Germans by and large followed the Geneva Convention, while the Japanese ignored it altogether. True, the Germans played a game where a few hundred downed airmen out of uniform were thrown in the regular concentration camps as criminals, but even that was stopped by one of their officers as a matter of honor (!). Now NOBODY is going to tell me the Nazis didn't have the infrastructure.

The question to ask now is whether the Americans are willing to hold themselves up to the Nazis' high ideals, or whether we are no more honorable than Imperial Japan.

P.S. those talking about how the "insurgents" deserved it should read the article. This guy is saying that everyone knew most of the people interrogated were innocent, that he was getting people sent back to him for torture because someone else had simply mentioned them in a non-criminal context in his own report. Do you think the Iraqi insurgents don't know whether we're torturing the innocent or the guilty?
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Postby Chief Mongo » Wed Mar 14, 2007 1:26 pm

Mike S. wrote:The claim that everybody does it is an out-and-out lie. Ask any grandparent who was in World War II - they'll tell you the Germans by and large followed the Geneva Conventionâ?Š

Unless you were someone they thought had intelligence that was either useful to them, or couldnâ??t be gleaned from other sources (like their extensive spy network). Then you were interrogated by their SS or other such contingent. The regular grunt, they could care less about â?? so youâ??re correct that most were treated well - given the circustances.

The brainiacs in Abu Ghraib were doing those things as pre-interrogation/post-interrogation tactics. Breaking the prisoners down, to try and get some intelligence on who, what, and WHERE the rest of their group was, where their safe house were, how often they changed safe house, etc.

In other words, they (the guards at Abu Ghraib, CIA, etc.) were doing what would have happened to your Grandpappy if he was captured by the Germans with knowledge the Germans deemed valuable. If your too naïve to believe that, especially since the cases of torture (the SS really enjoyed cutting) are well documented, then itâ??s time for a heavy dose of reality.

Oh, another point you may not have thought aboutâ?Š A lot of Germans had people who migrated to the US, so in a sense they may have been fighting friends/relatives, or descendants of the same. This is a big reason why Axis/Allies treated one another well â?? considering the circumstances. The Japanese werenâ??t handicapped by those feelings (especially since we threw most Japanese-Americans in their own private camps), but then again, they had always been very harsh towards anyone caught alive, as it went against their own warrior code (fight to the death).

Plus, itâ??s a well know and often demonstrated human behavior of being able to look upon others that donâ??t have similar traits as less human or even less than human. See whites treatment of blacks for example. Same for Asians and non-asians, Middle-Eastern and non Middle-Eastern, etc. In India people are looked upon as less simply because their skin is darker brown.

Mike S. wrote:Do you think the Iraqi insurgents don't know whether we're torturing the innocent or the guilty?

Iâ??m not sure what youâ??re asking in thisâ?Š

Do I think that the â??insurgentsâ?Â
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Postby massimo » Wed Mar 14, 2007 2:16 pm

Mongo, one question: did you actually read the article I posted? Some of your points would be valid if the criticisms you are attacking were coming from people sitting on their asses over here in the states. People like The Tolerator, for instance.

This article was written by a dude who did the interrogatin'. And most of the time, he's not talking about interrogating insurgents, but "insurgents," as Mike S. has pointed out.

Stop the war or STFU? Who are you talking to?
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Postby Chief Mongo » Wed Mar 14, 2007 9:24 pm

massimo wrote:Mongo, one question: did you actually read the article I posted?

Yes, I just choose to see it for what it is: A low level interrogator inserting opinion for fact. To what end you might ask? Smell the book deal?

Regardless, itâ??s also brings up the point I made before, there is no real way of telling who is who with regards to these â??insurgents.â?Â
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Postby Chuck_Schick » Thu Mar 15, 2007 9:51 am

Chief Mongo wrote:
massimo wrote:Stop the war or STFU? Who are you talking to?

People hatin' on the playa, instead of the game.

Yeah, right. Go ahead and criticize the war, but please ignore the war criminal.

Totally fucking retarded, chump.

I think we know who needs to shut the fuck up (oh, and please have the balls to spell it out, or just dump it from your vocabulary altogether, ya puss).
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Postby Chief Mongo » Thu Mar 15, 2007 7:14 pm

Chuck_Schick wrote:Yeah, right. Go ahead and criticize the war, but please ignore the war criminal.

Totally fucking retarded, chump.

Which "war criminals" would those be?

And you're in a position to label someone a "war criminal" how?

Oh, you read an article...

Brilliant!

Youâ??re entitled to your opinion, as retarded as it may be. Iâ??m only saying Iâ??m sick of hearing about it, when the war is the root cause of the problem. Get our people back home so they can do that shit to people that really do deserve itâ?Š

Like neo-cons.


Chuck_Schick wrote:I think we know who needs to shut the fuck up (oh, and please have the balls to spell it out, or just dump it from your vocabulary altogether, ya puss).

Yet you continuously â??open your trapâ?Â
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