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Franken stealing the election?

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Franken stealing the election?

Postby acereraser » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:33 pm

eriedasch wrote:I would have no problem with the courts looking at questionable ballots that were thrown out and verifying they should have been thrown out. What if some of the votes were legit? What is wrong with a candidate down by slightly more than 200 votes wanting to verify ballots?

Unless you have more info, I'm with lil bunny fu fu in saying simply wanting to verify votes is not a crime or basis of election tampering.

And if the ballots turn out to be bad anyway, at least Franken cannot come back and say questionable ballots were thrown out and that is why he did not win. At least everyone will be sure and isn't that what we want in democratic elections?


I am sorry my sarcasm didn't shine through, but I thought my other posts in this thread would lend the necessary context. I am firmly pro-Franken, and anti-Coleman as well, and while, ultimately, those positions are irrelevant to the subject of this thread "Franken stealing the election?", I thought I would get it down in digital print just to make it clear where I stand.

Really, I am trying to keep this thread alive as long as it takes for jjoyce to feel comfortable enough to come back in and explain what was going on in his head when he authored the thread. I don't know if his credibility is shot (that would be a personal judgment, you make your own), but I do know I take his subsequent postings with a grain of salt I never did before. The way he opened fire on Franken, seemingly without any evidence, then posted again with divergent argument, and finally dropped out of the thread entirely, after being asked direct questions by regular DPF members, is probably on the first page in Ned Flanders' playbook. After the countless times jjoyce has lambasted Ned for very similar tactics in this forum, I was left shaking my head, feeling in need of explanation.

Also, jjoyce and I are both Minnesota emigrants, with politics mostly based left of center. I certainly wouldn't expect us to agree on every issue, but on this subject, our opinions are virtually opposite, and I don't understand the cause for that gulf. And so, I am posting again.

You are correct, of course, pursuing whatever legal recourse he can to guarantee the veracity of the election results should not taint Franken with the accusation of fraud.

I tried to find an image of Franken doing the bits with the Grateful Dead in Dead Ahead, but I wasn't successful, so here is a picture of someone else on tour instead:
Image
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Re: Franken stealing the election?

Postby Ned Flanders » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:35 pm

I didn't know that Ann Coulter was a Dead-Head!
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Re: Franken stealing the election?

Postby fisticuffs » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:43 pm

Jjoyce that wasn't very nice. Some of us just ate lunch.
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Re: Franken stealing the election?

Postby lil bunny fufu » Wed Nov 19, 2008 2:51 pm

acereraser wrote: Really, I am trying to keep this thread alive as long as it takes for jjoyce to feel comfortable enough to come back in and explain what was going on in his head when he authored the thread. I don't know if his credibility is shot (that would be a personal judgment, you make your own), but I do know I take his subsequent postings with a grain of salt I never did before. The way he opened fire on Franken, seemingly without any evidence, then posted again with divergent argument, and finally dropped out of the thread entirely, after being asked direct questions by regular DPF members, is probably on the first page in Ned Flanders' playbook. After the countless times jjoyce has lambasted Ned for very similar tactics in this forum, I was left shaking my head, feeling in need of explanation.


Yeah, frankly I'm stunned that Joyce completely ignored the early reasonable, rational calls for clarification and/or supporting evidence and am left thinking that the only logical explanation is that he either can't be bothered to support his own arguments (which doesn't seem to have been a problem in the past) or isn't a big enough person to admit a mistake or just doesn't respect any of us enough to think we're worth responding to (in which case fuck him).

At this point, I'm inclined to agree that his credibility has dropped to that of Flanders - but if he's happy with that, its up to him.
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Re: Franken stealing the election?

Postby eriedasch » Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:19 pm

acereraser wrote:I am sorry my sarcasm didn't shine through, but I thought my other posts in this thread would lend the necessary context. I am firmly pro-Franken, and anti-Coleman as well, and while, ultimately, those positions are irrelevant to the subject of this thread "Franken stealing the election?", I thought I would get it down in digital print just to make it clear where I stand.

Sorry ace. It was a long weekend and I should have revisited the rest of the posts before I jumped back in with both feet.

Regardless, good work holding jjoyce to his reckless, unsubstantiated comments although I wish you luck. I don't think I've ever seen him admit he's been wrong about anything.
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Re: Franken stealing the election?

Postby aaronetc » Wed Nov 19, 2008 11:34 pm

Big news -- Franken stole 34 more votes in the first day of recounting.
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Re: Franken stealing the election?

Postby Ned Flanders » Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:52 am

Franken aid: Franken voters are drooling minority retards who are incapable of filling in a little black circle with a pencil:

"But Minneapolis lawyer Bill Starr, who is volunteering for the Franken campaign, was willing to say a few words. He said he thinks Franken will prevail. His hunch is based on a theory he has.

"People who voted for Coleman are more likely to have taken the SAT in their lifetime," he said. "They've filled in circles. Franken voters are probably not college-educated. They're new voters and immigrants. They've been brought in by groups like ACORN, from the inner cities. They're more likely to make mistakes. I've bounced this off of minority people, and they agree with me."
http://www.minnpost.com/stories/2008/11 ... tion_scene
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Re: Franken stealing the election?

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Thu Nov 20, 2008 11:37 am

Plenty of that kind of talk coming from both sides, Ned.

"It would be nice to have a rule, that if you vote you have to be able to make a circle inside a box," joked a Coleman operative.
Considering the Coleman campaign has challenged nearly twice as many votes as Franken's during this recount, I don't think it's difficult to figure out which side's voters he was referring to.

To help put this in context, I've worked with bubble-tests and know exactly what a pain in the ass it is to hand check each one, and I can assure you, intelligence, race, and economic status have exactly zero to do with the seeming inability of otherwise capable people to fill in a circle with a pencil. Seriously, if you ever had to do this, you'd be stunned at just how lazy/inept/confused many people get by what is essentially one of the simplest tasks known to humankind.

So to the Franken aide I say: You're an idiot (and what are you doing talking to press anyway?) And if this is really a concern, then perhaps ACORN should explain the voting process when they sign people up, eh?
To the Coleman aide: If you knew how many of your friends couldn't properly fill a circle, you wouldn't be joking about it.
To Flanders: What was your point, anyway? That some low-level aide is a moron? What a scoop!
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Re: Franken stealing the election?

Postby Ned Flounders » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:29 pm

This is absolutely crazy.

At the start of the recount, Coleman was leading by 215 votes (out of 2.9 million).

Now, with 18% recounted, his lead has dropped by 41 votes.

We could extrapolate that statewide: 41 divided by 0.18 = 228.

So as of right now, I predict Franken will eventually win by 13 votes. That's 0.00045% of the vote.

Of course, this could be off by a hundred votes in either direction. Sheesh.
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Re: Franken stealing the election?

Postby jjoyce » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:49 pm

I was wrong, you were right.

Go Twins. Hold Steady rocks.
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Re: Franken stealing the election?

Postby Old School Johnny » Thu Nov 20, 2008 12:51 pm

jjoyce wrote:I was wrong, you were right.

Go Twins. Hold Steady rocks.


Now was that so hard?
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Re: Franken stealing the election?

Postby O.J. » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:01 pm

jjoyce wrote:
Go Twins.


You're digging yourself into a deeper hole. :twisted:
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Re: Franken stealing the election?

Postby jjoyce » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:14 pm

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Re: Franken stealing the election?

Postby Ned Flounders » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:43 pm

jjoyce wrote:Images of challenged ballots:

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/featur ... d_ballots/


That's really cool. It looks like both campaigns are sometimes going a bit overboard with the challenges.

I'd say ballots 1, 4, 5, 6, and 8 should clearly go to Franken.

Ballots 9 and 10 should go to Barkley.

Ballot 2 shouldn't be rejected just because of a thumbprint.

Ballots 3, 7, and 11 should probably be rejected.

IF these were a representative sample (they probably aren't), then the recount would almost certainly go to Franken. It does seem likely that these kinds of challenges will make the difference, though!
Last edited by Ned Flounders on Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Franken stealing the election?

Postby donges » Thu Nov 20, 2008 1:48 pm

jjoyce wrote:Images of challenged ballots:

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/featur ... d_ballots/


Seeing these, I have some sympathy for the aids who joked about being able to color in the little circles.
Recounting must be excruciatingly painful and exhausting work.
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