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Wherein lies the rub?

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Wherein lies the rub?

Postby Cortez » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:17 am

Nothing like misquoting Shakespeare at 2am :) But anyway...

Point A...
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/19/us/19 ... lobal-home
But Mr. Bush, in an appearance here on Wednesday, maintained that he would not criticize President Obama, though he did discuss his policies.

...and Point B
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/06/19/us/19 ... lobal-home
WASHINGTON (AFP) — The White House Thursday responded to a reported critique of President Barack Obama's policies by George W. Bush, by painting a dire picture of the America handed over by the former president.
In a visit to upstate Pennsylvania, Bush, who has largely kept his own counsel since leaving office with rock-bottom approval ratings in January, criticized Obama's anti-terror policies and his stewardship of the economy.
White House spokesman Robert Gibbs did not directly respond to Bush's reported comments, but offered a damning assessment of Bush's America.


People dislike the current adminitration for a variety of reasons. In my case, one of the big problems I have is what I would call a pro-administration protectionist policy enacted by those in the media. Here we have the top two articles in a google news search of [-Bush, Pennsylvania-]. The first one (NYT) I can give credit for duly noting a strongly emphasized assertion by the former president that, dislike him though you may, he was there to make a point of his own regarding current affairs and not to criticize his successor. The second one (AFP) immediately describes the former president's comments as "reported criticism". You would call that phrase spin because "reported" is a baited adjective. If they call it "reported criticism" it means that someone thinks its criticism and they're giving weight to that assertion; by placing the term at the beginning of the argument they frame the entire article from that perspective.

My question is how far do you have to go, how low do you have to kneel, to be able to respectfully dissent? No one's going to pretend Bush likes his successor and I won't pretend that I like him either. But even if I did, I would still have a big problem with a situation where one isn't able to disagree with him without the mainstream press calling it an attack. Why so uptight?

Its at this point that those who support the current administration and those who oppose it see two different things. I for one would really like to know how this protectionist stance taken up by the press is interpreted by the left. I would like to know, because if I was on the left I would still have a big problem with it (not just here but in all aspects of white house coverage). My opinion is that most on the left just brush it off or worse feed into it. In the name of fairness I will say that what those outside the circle see is a dangerous trend of white washing dissent by the press, and villifying those dissenters they're nonetheless forced to cover. The big comparison that springs to mind would be the nationalized press of certain historical totalitarian regimes. For me personally, I see that and my thoughts are that I don't like where this is headed.

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Re: Wherein lies the rub?

Postby Donald » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:57 am

Your point doesn't make much sense to me. You seem to be saying that you disagree with Obama because some of the press is giving him a free ride. I think much of the establishment press gave Bush a free ride for far too long, but that is not why I disagreed with Bush policies. Let me point out that no one is calling dissenters from Obama policies traitors, terrorist sympathizers, enemies of America, etc., etc. That is what many of the dissenters from Bush policies had to put up with. Stop whining.
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Re: Wherein lies the rub?

Postby GODDOG » Sat Jun 20, 2009 10:57 am

Cortez wrote: The big comparison that springs to mind would be the nationalized press of certain historical totalitarian regimes. For me personally, I see that and my thoughts are that I don't like where this is headed.Cortez


God you are an idiot. So, calling the media "liberal" wasn't good enough for you. Now they are Nazi. Unfreakin'believable! Our media has come from being ineffectual during the run up to Iraq to trying to overcompensate for their ineptitude. But to say they are anywhere near "nationalized" is a joke. A very lame and misguided one. Again like you. Bush's lies about intel and lies about yellow cake was swallowed by the media like a $10 whore in Vegas with the Texas A&M football team lined up for turnsies. Bush can say what ever it is he wants...he is irrelevant. He is now a citizen w/ some pretty good "socialist" benefits until he finally dies. What was his final approval ratings? 20 maybe 21%. Very similar to those who actually claim to be Republican now. If you've just realized that "media" is a business and stirring up rhetoric or controversy is their game...you are more worse off then I had ever imagined!
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Re: Wherein lies the rub?

Postby makmadison » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:48 pm

"pro-administration protectionist policy enacted by those in the media."

"Why so uptight?"

"I for one would really like to know how this protectionist stance taken up by the press is interpreted by the left. I would like to know, because if I was on the left I would still have a big problem with it"

Maybe the press is almost entirely run by the liberal left? They are so uptight and protectionist because they, liberals, finally dominate politics at the federal level and they just do not know how to respond or behave - they have to much skin in the game to upset what is currently playing out. To offer alternative points of view or dissent may detract from the liberal goals for change. They would rather have some kind of change than no change at all.

We see this in these forums. There is little or no discussions of the events, ideas, and policies playing out in the world around us. I find this astonishing.

If a Repub was in the Oval Office, I would bet these forums would be considerably more active.
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Re: Wherein lies the rub?

Postby Cortez » Sun Jun 21, 2009 4:42 am

Donald wrote:Your point doesn't make much sense to me. You seem to be saying that you disagree with Obama because some of the press is giving him a free ride. I think much of the establishment press gave Bush a free ride for far too long, but that is not why I disagreed with Bush policies. Let me point out that no one is calling dissenters from Obama policies traitors, terrorist sympathizers, enemies of America, etc., etc. That is what many of the dissenters from Bush policies had to put up with. Stop whining.


"You seem to be saying that you disagree with [Barry] because some of the press is giving him a free ride."
You have to know that's a bit of an understatement. But anyway I disagree with him because our ideology is different. The role the press is playing is something I think people should be wary of.
"No one is calling dissenters from Obama policies traitors, terrorist sympathizers, enemies of America, etc., etc."
True - instead they play the race card. Same but different. Before dissenters were all "un-American" now its put forward that one might only disagree with the anointed one on the basis of personal bigotry. Still a dangerous trend.

"That is what many of the dissenters from Bush policies had to put up with. Stop whining."

That's exactly my point. Or I might say, "what's bad for the goose is bad for the gander". Right below this thread is a thread about the still-in-place Patriot Act. Perhaps a less Prez-friendly press might have something more to say about that.

What's bad about the media being a mouthpiece for the administration is not that the media and the administration are liberal. We should point out that if the former Prez got a free ride after the Trade Center deal, well that didn't exactly work out too well for us did it? Why should it work now? Because he's "such a great guy?" It just means people are being led in a direction whose true destination is known to few. What's disappointing to me is that a populace who should know better are so ready to do it all again. Whats bad for the goose is bad for the gander.

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Re: Wherein lies the rub?

Postby O.J. » Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:42 am

Cortez wrote:
"You seem to be saying that you disagree with [Barry] because some of the press is giving him a free ride."


C.


Why did you feel the need to edit Donald's post to use one of your silly nicknames for Obama? And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.
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Re: Wherein lies the rub?

Postby Cortez » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:23 pm

O.J. wrote:
Cortez wrote:
"You seem to be saying that you disagree with [Barry] because some of the press is giving him a free ride."


C.


Why did you feel the need to edit Donald's post to use one of your silly nicknames for Obama? And you wonder why no one takes you seriously.


That's his name dude.
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Re: Wherein lies the rub?

Postby berbo » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:25 pm

Cortez wrote:That's his name dude.


Allegedly. But since he has no birth certificate, we can't be sure.
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Re: Wherein lies the rub?

Postby Cortez » Sun Jun 21, 2009 3:27 pm

Birth certificate?
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Re: Wherein lies the rub?

Postby GODDOG » Mon Jun 22, 2009 9:20 am

Cortez wrote:Birth certificate?

here you go...moron!

http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg

keep tryin' troll...spend all your time trying to "get" the POTUS and avoid cleaning up your own party (Ensign much?) and get your asses handed to you, again, in 2012! bewhaahahahahahaha!
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Re: Wherein lies the rub?

Postby Cortez » Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:48 am

GODDOG wrote:
Cortez wrote:Birth certificate?

here you go...moron!

http://msgboard.snopes.com/politics/graphics/birth.jpg

keep tryin' troll...spend all your time trying to "get" the POTUS and avoid cleaning up your own party (Ensign much?) and get your asses handed to you, again, in 2012! bewhaahahahahahaha!


The really funny part in 2012 will be when everyone in need of jobs, higher wages, reduced inflation and a better quality of financial life still needs it and doesn't receive it. The prices will keep going up and people's incomes will probably fall even further out of sync, and the person tasked with repairing a damaged system doesn't have to lift a finger.
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Re: Wherein lies the rub?

Postby fisticuffs » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:15 am

Cortez where is your outrage at the Conservative Media?
Your one example here is pretty fucking weak. Some did see Bush's words as criticism did they not? Is that not absolutely factual to say? Not that anybody gives a shit what Bush has to say.

Fox, Rush all those other scum don't just spin Cortez they flat out fucking lie. Day after day. Show after show. If your definition of non-biased reporting is constant attacks on the president then you need to look into the word bias.

For every inch that CNN is to the Left (which isn't nearly as much as the Right would have you believe) Fox and Conservative Radio are a mile to the right. IS that the best way to fight media bias? By being a thousand times more biased in the other direction? Doesn't make much sense to me.

What stories is the Liberal Media ignoring Cortez? Fox ignored the shit out of this guy trying to stop a Republican Senator from boning his wife. You know why they don't talk about the birth certificate issue? Because its not fucking news.
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Re: Wherein lies the rub?

Postby Cortez » Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:39 am

fisticuffs wrote:Cortez where is your outrage at the Conservative Media?
Your one example here is pretty fucking weak. Some did see Bush's words as criticism did they not? Is that not absolutely factual to say? Not that anybody gives a shit what Bush has to say.

Fox, Rush all those other scum don't just spin Cortez they flat out fucking lie. Day after day. Show after show. If your definition of non-biased reporting is constant attacks on the president then you need to look into the word bias.

For every inch that CNN is to the Left (which isn't nearly as much as the Right would have you believe) Fox and Conservative Radio are a mile to the right. IS that the best way to fight media bias? By being a thousand times more biased in the other direction? Doesn't make much sense to me.

What stories is the Liberal Media ignoring Cortez? Fox ignored the shit out of this guy trying to stop a Republican Senator from boning his wife. You know why they don't talk about the birth certificate issue? Because its not fucking news.


Well I was going to say that. I am outraged at the conservative media. I have a really big problem with bias. If a reporter's job is to state the facts, they should give the plain story no matter how it reflects on those they do or don't favor. I only wanted to use that one example. I don't like to run through a variety of topics to make a single point, the conversations just get all muddied up.

"Some did see Bush's words as criticism did they not?" That's true. I'm just saying a biased reporter can frame it in a way that leads the audience. People watching the news don't stop to consider whether everybody views it as criticism or some do. They just hear "reported criticism" and take that to mean Prez 43 was criticism Prez 44. For perspective I can say that I read the transcript and from my side it just appears to be a conservative viewpoint on the events of the day, which it is; and I just posted the two links as a demonstration. I wasn't the one who brought up the birth certificate. I think we can all agree that the effects of selective journalism were quite devistating during the first years of the 2000's. I'm saying I understand the "horay for our side" angle, but that doesn't make a dangerous trend in journalism any safer for those who are looking for and need real improvement.
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Re: Wherein lies the rub?

Postby GODDOG » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:06 pm

Cortez wrote:The really funny part in 2012 will be when everyone in need of jobs, higher wages, reduced inflation and a better quality of financial life still needs it and doesn't receive it. The prices will keep going up and people's incomes will probably fall even further out of sync, and the person tasked with repairing a damaged system doesn't have to lift a finger.


Cortez = The Amazing Kreskin

speculate all you want knob....but you and your party are doing nothing to help repair the damage done by your man Bush. You are a bunch of obstructionists w/ no plan but to try and pull a "Clinton" on Obama. Attack him at every turn and waste tax payers $, because Repugnants are paid by my dime as well, and solve not a thing. I won't predict the future but if your party keeps this up you will lose, again. If your tactic is to do nothing and then blame Obama I wish you luck. The politics of old are easily identified and with the speed and efficiency of the "internets" and blogville your ilk shall be but a faint memory.
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Re: Wherein lies the rub?

Postby fisticuffs » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:32 pm

Well I was going to say that. I am outraged at the conservative media. I have a really big problem with bias. If a reporter's job is to state the facts, they should give the plain story no matter how it reflects on those they do or don't favor.


Fair enough but then there is a difference between "The Media" and "Journalism". With a 24hour cable news cycle things would get pretty dull stating the facts and only the facts. These are TV networks like any other and their primary purpose is entertainment. I don't have any problem with the opinion shows on any of the networks but I do have a problem with outright lies. All the major networks have these point counter point segments the difference between the ones on CNN and ABC etc and the ones on Fox are that Fox always chooses a weak democratic opponent will allow the righty to sling whatever bullshit they want. Fox edits out clips every single day to shed the Left in a bad light. Fox is ALL spin ALL the time. There are no Journalists at Fox. Not one. CNN does soft news and investigative reports (Journalism). MSNBC seems to think it needs to be Fox for the Left. With a few exceptions.
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