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An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

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Re: An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

Postby rabble » Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:00 pm

Meade wrote:No quibbles here. Clearly you win, Henry V. That photo shows MLK and his followers encircling, blocking, and daring the cops to go through them if the cops want to get to wherever the cops are trying to get to.

Except that the cops could go around them to get wherever they wanted to go. Those protestors were blocking a sidewalk. Inside a circle. There was no threat, there was no encircling. The cops could, and eventually did, just walk right back out the way they came.
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Re: An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

Postby Meade » Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:37 pm

rabble wrote:Those protestors were blocking a sidewalk. Inside a circle.


Keep walking it back as more information is revealed. On Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:11 pm you said:

And now he [Lt Pike] IS a guy who nonchalantly pepper sprayed a bunch of people just sitting there.
(my emphasis)

But now one of the protesters who was pepper sprayed, Elli Pearson informs us:
"Well, we were protesting together, and the riot cops came at us, and we linked arms and sat down peacefully to protest their presence on our campus. And at one point, they were—we had encircled them, and they were trying to leave, and they were trying to clear a path. And so, we sat down, linked arms, and said that if they wanted to clear the path, they would have to go through us. But we were on the ground, you know, heads down. And all I could see was people telling me to cover my head, protect myself, and put my head down. And the next thing I know, I was pepper-sprayed."


Why did those particular protesters sit down and block the path? At least one of them got up and moved when the cops told them they were about to use pepper spray. What prevented the rest of them from doing the same thing?
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Re: An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:39 pm

Meade, I guess you're right. King was only playing Red Rover.
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Re: An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

Postby Meade » Fri Nov 25, 2011 12:48 pm

I see your point, Henry Vilas: Linking arms does not a peaceful non-confrontational demonstration make.

Or is your point that Red Rover is not just a children's game? It is much more than that. It's a demonstration of self-sacrifice for the higher purpose of gaining basic human rights, freedom and justice. And lower tuition.
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Re: An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

Postby rabble » Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:09 pm

Meade wrote:
rabble wrote:Those protestors were blocking a sidewalk. Inside a circle.


Keep walking it back as more information is revealed. On Sun Nov 20, 2011 5:11 pm you said:

And now he [Lt Pike] IS a guy who nonchalantly pepper sprayed a bunch of people just sitting there.
(my emphasis)

They WERE just sitting there.

Meade wrote:But now one of the protesters who was pepper sprayed, Elli Pearson informs us:
"Well, we were protesting together, and the riot cops came at us, and we linked arms and sat down peacefully to protest their presence on our campus. And at one point, they were—we had encircled them, and they were trying to leave, and they were trying to clear a path. And so, we sat down, linked arms, and said that if they wanted to clear the path, they would have to go through us. But we were on the ground, you know, heads down. And all I could see was people telling me to cover my head, protect myself, and put my head down. And the next thing I know, I was pepper-sprayed."


Why did those particular protesters sit down and block the path? At least one of them got up and moved when the cops told them they were about to use pepper spray. What prevented the rest of them from doing the same thing?

AT ONE POINT they were surrounded. And we all saw (or maybe you missed it) video of the cops stepping over the line of sitting people, and back over, and over them again. Yeah. That sure looks like they were "blocked."
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Re: An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

Postby Meade » Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:41 pm

rabble wrote:That sure looks like they were "blocked."


Okay, but just so we're clear - earlier, you said:

rabble wrote:
Those protestors were blocking a sidewalk. Inside a circle.


Now, you're putting "blocked" in quotes because... why? Not sure they were blocked? You are sure they were not blocked? They were sort of "blocked" but they sure could have "stepped over" the "blocking" protesters if only the cops had been a little more agile and less, as Ed Schultz says, "pig"-like?
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Re: An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

Postby DCB » Fri Nov 25, 2011 2:50 pm

Meade wrote:
Why did those particular protesters sit down and block the path? At least one of them got up and moved when the cops told them they were about to use pepper spray. What prevented the rest of them from doing the same thing?

The point of sitting down was to make a statement. The only reason to force them to move is abridge their free speech rights.

They didn't have to move.
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Re: An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

Postby rabble » Fri Nov 25, 2011 4:29 pm

Meade wrote:
rabble wrote:That sure looks like they were "blocked."


Okay, but just so we're clear - earlier, you said:

rabble wrote:
Those protestors were blocking a sidewalk. Inside a circle.


Now, you're putting "blocked" in quotes because... why? Not sure they were blocked? You are sure they were not blocked? They were sort of "blocked" but they sure could have "stepped over" the "blocking" protesters if only the cops had been a little more agile and less, as Ed Schultz says, "pig"-like?

Yes, on all counts. I don't think the protester is a reliable source of information. I think "blocked" is pretty ambiguous in this instance because every video I see shows available egress AND alternate routes for anyone to take. I think it's appropriate to put "blocked" in quotes because the police quite obviously are not prevented from going anywhere.

And if I'm remembering correctly, that was the first time anyone on this forum has explained why they have put a word in quotes to imply irony. Can't think of a time anyone has done it, especially a conservative or someone who has taken on the mantle of "centrist."
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Re: An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

Postby Meade » Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:11 pm

rabble wrote:I don't think the protester is a reliable source of information.


Cool. New rule: Selectively and gratuitously impugn the veracity of any eyewitness (and I do mean eye witness), who offers information (in a friendly and supportive interview environment) that does not conveniently fit the template (e.g., UC-Davis pepper spray = Kent State shootings) of our desire!
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Re: An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

Postby rabble » Fri Nov 25, 2011 5:19 pm

Meade wrote:
rabble wrote:I don't think the protester is a reliable source of information.


Cool. New rule: Selectively and gratuitously impugn the veracity of any eyewitness (and I do mean eye witness), who offers information (in a friendly and supportive interview environment) that does not conveniently fit the template (e.g., UC-Davis pepper spray = Kent State shootings) of our desire!

There's also a whole lot of video, Captain Obvious. That's a lot of eyewitnesses. And if you're going to believe everything he says, he does indeed say "AT ONE POINT."

He doesn't say the cops were blocked when they were pepper sprayed, now does he?

And umm.... Kent State shootings?
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Re: An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

Postby Meade » Fri Nov 25, 2011 11:12 pm

rabble wrote:AT ONE POINT they were surrounded. And we all saw (or maybe you missed it) video of the cops stepping over the line of sitting people, and back over, and over them again. Yeah. That sure looks like they were "blocked."


Apparently, by California law, the police would have been committing a misdemeanor themselves if they had not unblocked the walkway the protesters were intentionally blocking. (Or maybe you missed it): http://furtheradventuresofindigored.blogspot.com/2011/11/great-uc-davis-pepper-spray-incident.html?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+FurtherAdventuresOfIndigoRed+%28Further+Adventures+of+Indigo+Red%29&utm_content=Google+Feedfetcher
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Re: An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

Postby rabble » Sat Nov 26, 2011 10:26 am

Well that's the end of it then. Come Christmas time when the inquiry ends, all the officers and the UC administrators will be exonerated because not only were the officers following the law, they were subject to arrest if they did not.

I'm not sure who would have done the arresting. I think they would have had to arrest themselves.

Whatever, they'll be exonerated and the Occupy movement will wither away.
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Re: An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

Postby Stella_Guru » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:04 am

It is a small step to go from supporting the abuse of defenseless detainees, supporting the power to kill or imprison with no due process, to supporting the pepper spraying of non-violent protesters by a robocop costumed, para-militarized domestic police force.
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Re: An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

Postby rabble » Sat Nov 26, 2011 11:12 am

Stella_Guru wrote:It is a small step to go from supporting the abuse of defenseless detainees, supporting the power to kill or imprison with no due process, to supporting the pepper spraying of non-violent protesters by a robocop costumed, para-militarized domestic police force.

Hm. I wonder if that notion will occur to anyone else on the day they say "The officers responded in exactly the proper manner. No charges, no reprimands."

Pause.

Nah.
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Re: An Article on the Pepper Spray Mentality

Postby rabble » Sat Nov 26, 2011 12:30 pm

I apologize for multiple posts, and I'm going to quit for a while and get some chores done. But just one more.

Pepper Spray Creator Blasts UC Davis Police

..Kamran Loghman, who helped develop pepper spray into a weapons-​grade material with the Federal Bureau of Investigation in the 1980s, the incident at Davis violated his original intent.

“I have never seen such an inappropriate and improper use of chemical agents,” Mr. Loghman said in an interview.
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