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What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Marvell » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:30 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Marvell wrote: Your un-earned self-regard is only exceeded by your utter lack of self-awareness.

I see. Use of the word "catty" is now manifestation of misogyny?
The politically correct machinery claims new territory.


The use of a specifically feminized perjorative to dismiss as relevant the points of view of two female posters by you, a dude, is pretty much the definition of misogyny. That you try to hide behind the fig-leaf of 'political correctness' - a trivialized into meaninglessness phrase if there ever was one - is just more proof of how utterly fucking clueless you are about, well, pretty much everything.

Plus the overt hypocrisy and just general intellectual bad faith. You ooze it.

But you're sure good at the mulish obstinancy - I'll give you that.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby ilikebeans » Wed Apr 11, 2012 4:54 pm

pjbogart wrote:A young Barack Obama, who has a mother who is white and a father who is black, asks his mother why her skin is white while his own skin is black? His mother tells him that she was impregnated with him at a wild party that she doesn't remember much about, presumably because she was very intoxicated, but she recalls having sex with a dog and a black man. She explains to Barack that he should be happy that he's black and not a dog.

*rimshot*
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:10 pm

Bland wrote:It sure sounds like you're trying to argue intent and context matter, Huck, yet you keep bringing up comedians, as if their intent and context are the same as the judge's in question.

I get that the judge's forwarding of that joke is bad because of his position, and that is what I meant by context. I think it is bad simply because it is an ugly, mean-spirited joke. You just expect a judge to be a little more civilized.

But it is a joke, after all, so if you are just looking at the degree of racism or (god I hate saying this word as much as I hate spelling it) misogyny, that ought to be same regardless of context.

"misogyny" comes from greek roots for hate & woman. The definition should mean something very intense.
Now, the feminist definition quoted above says the sexual objectification of women manifests such hatred. It's a difficult premise that sexual jokes objectify women sexually, but even having accepted that, you also have to believe that such an objectification comes from an inner hatred of women. That's severe.

I have the exact same problem with the word homophobic. That word should describe a very intense and specific situation. There are a lot of reasons why somebody might be uncomfortable with homosexuality, not all of them stemming from latent fear or sexual anxiety.

"misogyny" and "homophobia" are used too freely as name-calling weapons, much like that old standby "fascist".
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:23 pm

Marvell wrote:The use of a specifically feminized perjorative to dismiss as relevant the points of view of two female posters by you, a dude, is pretty much the definition of misogyny.


The "point of view" that I dismissed was a nasty remark that I am too stupid and loathsome for conversation. One of the "mean girls" is a woman, the other a man, and calling their remarks catty is exactly on the mark. ( I actually don't think they are mean, or even catty really, they were just mad. But "catty" was a fun rejoinder.)

Ya know, you need to enter the politically correct olympics, you would go gold.

BTW, I don't appreciate being denigrated as a "dude", you misopatrist.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Bland » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:03 am

Huckleby wrote:There are a lot of reasons why somebody might be uncomfortable with homosexuality, not all of them stemming from latent fear or sexual anxiety.

Oh? Do tell.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:20 am

Two reasons why people might be uncomfortable with homosexuality that shouldn't be labeled homophobia:
1) Religion. Some believe that homosexuality is a sin. For instance, the reasons that African-Americans are so statistically against gay marriage is that religion has been very important to their well-being through their history in this country. Black churches tend to be conservative.
2) Tradition. Marriage has been between a man and woman for a long time. A lot of people are just resistant to change, particular with such a fundamental institution.

For sure sexual attitudes are complex, people have a mix of reasons for reacting one way or another. Homophobia can be part of any individual's mix.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Bland » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:40 am

Huckleby wrote:1) Religion. Some believe that homosexuality is a sin.

In other words, latent fear. (You cannot decouple the notion of sin from the fear of reprisal from God.)
Huckleby wrote:2) Tradition. Marriage has been between a man and woman for a long time.

And that would be sexual anxiety (the idea that your own sexuality and marriage are somehow threatened by what someone else does.)

Care to try again?
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:02 am

Bland wrote: In other words, latent fear. (You cannot decouple the notion of sin from the fear of reprisal from God.)

yes, but "homophobia" should not be used to characterize any and all fears. "homophobia" means a specific psychological condition, or perpensity.

Bland wrote:
Huckleby wrote:2) Tradition. Marriage has been between a man and woman for a long time.

And that would be sexual anxiety (the idea that your own sexuality and marriage are somehow threatened by what someone else does.)

People who claim homosexuality threatens marriage are not talking about their own marriage, that is a straw man argument. They are talking about threat to fabric of society. This is not sexual anxiety.

I don't disagree with your views. But using "homophobia" so broadly is just using that word as cudgel because it sounds so extreme.

Same deal with the way that "mysogyny", and "fascist" and "genocide" have been over-used and diluted.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:11 am

I took a look at wikipedia on "homophobia"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homophobia

It began having a specific meaning:
George Weinberg, a psychologist, is credited as the first person to have used the term in speech.[11] The word homophobia first appeared in print in an article written for the May 23, 1969, edition of the American tabloid Screw, in which the word was used to refer to heterosexual men's fear that others might think they are gay.
In 1971, Kenneth Smith was the first person to use homophobia as a personality profile to describe the psychological aversion to homosexuality.


But now it is defined more broadly:
Homophobia is a range of negative attitudes and feelings towards homosexuality and people who are identified as or perceived as being homosexual. Definitions[1][2][3] refer variably to antipathy, contempt, prejudice, aversion, and irrational fear. Homophobia is observable in critical and hostile behavior such as discrimination[1][2] and violence on the basis of a non-heterosexual orientation. In a 1998 address, author, activist, and civil rights leader Coretta Scott King stated that "Homophobia is like racism and anti-Semitism and other forms of bigotry in that it seeks to dehumanize a large group of people, to deny their humanity, their dignity and personhood."[4]


So it looks like usage has swung things in your direction.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Bland » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:22 am

Huckleby wrote:
Bland wrote: In other words, latent fear. (You cannot decouple the notion of sin from the fear of reprisal from God.)

yes, but "homophobia" should not be used to characterize any and all fears. "homophobia" means a specific psychological condition, or perpensity.

Right - fear of homosexuality.
Why does it matter if that fear was instilled in you by religion or not? Seems to me you're doing the same thing you did in that damned interminable Catholic thread - just giving the religious a pass on their backwards beliefs because it's not their fault, it's just their religion. The threat of eternal damnation might be the ultimate root of the fear, but homosexuals become the target of it.
Huckleby wrote:They are talking about threat to fabric of society. This is not sexual anxiety.

So you've just brought your argument back around to #1: latent fear. What fear? The fear that homosexuals are ruining society and therefore should be shunned and prohibited. In other words, homophobia.

Wanna try again?
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Huckleby » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:34 am

Bland wrote:The threat of eternal damnation might be the ultimate root of the fear, but homosexuals become the target of it.....What fear? The fear that homosexuals are ruining society and therefore should be shunned and prohibited. In other words, homophobia.

Any aversion to homosexuals can be restated as a "fear."
Look, the word homophobia began meaning something specific, see definition above.
It now has expanded, through its use as a cudgel, to mean any and every aversion to homosexuality.

I see this as a regretable change, but that's just my pet peeve. To me, it is wrong to use such a word so generically. But you win.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Apr 13, 2012 12:38 pm

Henry Vilas
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri Apr 13, 2012 3:12 pm




It's so nice that he's worried about Obama's safety.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:01 am

I expect nasty attacks ads coming from this:

Mystery donor gives $10 million to Crossroads GPS group to run anti-Obama ads
An anonymous donor gave $10 million late last year to run ads attacking President Obama and Democratic policies, escalating the money race that is defining the 2012 presidential campaign. And in the new, free-wheeling environment of independent political giving, the identity of this donor, like many others, is likely to remain a permanent mystery.

The donation went to Crossroads GPS, the conservative nonprofit group founded with the support of political strategist Karl Rove.
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Re: What the GOP really thinks about Obama

Postby Ducatista » Sun Apr 15, 2012 2:17 pm

Huckleby wrote:"misogyny" and "homophobia" are used too freely as name-calling weapons, much like that old standby "fascist".

Who speaks for the misunderstood straight guy? Huckleby.
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