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Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Postby Peanutbutter » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:09 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Then why haven't other states adopted such a regulation?


You should spend more time reading the link and less time trolling.
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Re: Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:10 am

Peanutbutter wrote:
Does anyone really think that Mississippi passed this onerous regulation to protect the health of woman?


Requiring a doctor to have admitting privileges to a local hospital is considered "onerous"?

:roll:

No, not on the face of it. The devil is in the implementation details.

What are those local hospitals doing to expand admitting privileges to allow abortion clinics to continue functioning? The motivations here are not even masked, the regulations are there to kill legal abortion.
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Re: Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Postby Meade » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:13 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Or is it just a craven move to restrict access to a legal medical procedure?

How do you define "legal medical procedure"? Is squeezing your own pimples a legal medical procedure? How about causing an ovum to be fertilized by having sexual intercourse? Those are two of the only medical procedures I can think of that aren't regulated by the government.

And how is the move craven? What is fainthearted about it?

You do realize that losing the last abortion clinic in the state creates a real problem for the Mississippi pro-life activists, don't you? Where will they go to picket and counsel? Abortions in Mississippi will become private medical procedures exclusively performed in hospitals where a wide variety of other legal medical procedures are routinely performed. Sorry, pro-lifers, you'll have to take your protests, chants, and posters someplace else. Try Wisconsin.
Last edited by Meade on Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:19 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:14 am

Peanutbutter wrote:
Huckleby wrote:Mississippi has used regulation to completely end legal abortion in the state. Can you dispute this statement?


This same law has been enacted in nine states other than Mississippi. Are you really claiming that abortion is "completely ended" in ten different states?

If that is true, then hopefully Wisconsin will become number eleven.


Use your head. This particular regulation is part of a package of efforts to end legal abortion. Obviously it is going to be more decisive in states where abortion rights are more fragile.

I have no problem with your opinion on abortion, I am sypathetic to pro-life principles. But this disingenuous arguing is hard to take. You know perfectly well that the intent of such regulation is to end legal abortion, and you support that intent.
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Re: Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Postby Meade » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:21 am

Huckleby wrote:I have no problem with your opinion on abortion, I am sypathetic to pro-life principles.

Specifically, which pro-life principles are you sympathetic to? Thanks.
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Re: Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Postby snoqueen » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:23 am

Found a bit of CCC history readers may wish to absorb:

http://www.rcrc.org/programs/clergycons ... ervice.cfm
In 1967, when the service was established in New York City... It was estimated that criminal abortions exceeded legal ones by a ratio of about 100 to 1.... The largest percentage of abortion deaths were among women aged 35-39 with five or six children.


Read the article for the whole thing. It is accurate as far as I remember, and I knew first-hand people in this movement.

There's nothing that says this won't return.
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Re: Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jun 23, 2012 11:42 am

Meade wrote:Specifically, which pro-life principles are you sympathetic to? Thanks.

I believe it is unknowable whether fetus is a life or not. Therefore, if one is sincere about the sanctity of life, then one has to err on the side of caution.

(Many pro-lifers don't extend the sacredness of life principle to other issues)

In final decision, I am pro-choice because of other arguments that I give more weight to.
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Re: Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Postby Peanutbutter » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:11 pm

The liberal hysteria on this is truly over the top.

"This is John Crow all over again!"

There is nothing racist about this law.

"Abortion is banned in Mississippi"

No, it isn't.

"No other state has enacted such a onerous law!"

Actually, nine other states have done the same exact thing.

"If we regulate medical procedures then people will seek out unregulated medical procedures!"

Only if they choose to. Hopefully some women will instead choose to not kill their own baby.
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Re: Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:29 pm

Since when is a zygote a baby?
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Re: Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Postby Huckleby » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:33 pm

Peanutbutter wrote: "This is John Crow all over again!"

There is nothing racist about this law.

It is the return of Jim Crow - like tactics. Different group seeing their civil rights violated, but very much in the tradition.

Peanutbutter wrote: "Abortion is banned in Mississippi"

No, it isn't.

Are you being deliberately dense? Black voting wasn't explicitly banned during Jim Crow era either.
Regulations have been used to end the right to seek an abortion, and in Mississippi they have cumulatively succeeded. Abortion is now effectively banned in Mississippi.

Peanutbutter wrote: "No other state has enacted such a onerous law!"

Actually, nine other states have done the same exact thing.

The fact that other states have embarked on the same strategy to bureaucratically end abortion is not an argument in your favor.

Peanutbutter wrote:"If we regulate medical procedures then people will seek out unregulated medical procedures!"

Only if they choose to. Hopefully some women will instead choose to not kill their own baby.

OK, fine, this is the thinking from the 1950's.

Feel free to argue your position, but enough with the dishonest pretense that regulations in Mississipppi aren't efforts to controvene the constitution and end legal abortion.
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Re: Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Postby rabble » Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:49 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Peanutbutter wrote:Only if they choose to. Hopefully some women will instead choose to not kill their own baby.

OK, fine, this is the thinking from the 1950's.

Feel free to argue your position, but enough with the dishonest pretense that regulations in Mississipppi aren't efforts to controvene the constitution and end legal abortion.

It's the same argument for abortion as it is for unemployment, and welfare. Better that women die in back alleys with their babies than anyone get a legal abortion. Better that children starve than anyone accept aid for which they are not authorized.

It doesn't matter if lives are saved. What matters is that money is saved, and religious principles are applied to the general population.
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Re: Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Postby Meade » Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:21 pm

Huckleby wrote:OK, fine, this is the thinking from the 1950's.

Thinking from the 1950's is bad, mkay?

But isn't collective bargaining for public employees an example of thinking from the 1950's? The Montgomery Bus Boycott - 1955-1956. More thinking from the 1950's: Fidel Castro thought it would be a good idea to overthrow the regime of Fulgencio Batista in Cuba and establish a communist government in that country. Francis Crick and James Watson thought of the double-helix structure of DNA. Rock and Roll music was thought of. Mr. Huckleby, Sr. thought it might be a good idea to give Mrs. Huckleby a baby and name it Baby Huckleby. More bad bad thinking from the 1950's.
Last edited by Meade on Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:55 am

A federal judge in Mississippi just issued a temporary restraining order stopping the enforcement of the anti-abortion law, which was to go in effect today.
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Re: Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Jul 11, 2012 1:55 pm

Judge to determine fate of last abortion clinic

A federal judge will decide Wednesday whether Mississippi's only abortion clinic can continue to stay open under a temporary order or whether it should permanently shut its doors under a new state law.
...
Since the law went into effect, the Jackson Women's Health Organization has remained open under a federal judge's temporary order blocking enforcement of the law until Wednesday's hearing. The clinic is trying to comply with the law, according to owner Diane Derzis, but it has been hampered by red tape and the cumbersome application process to get hospital privileges.

That forced the clinic to seek a permanent injunction allowing it to stay open while it fights the law, which Derzis and other opponents say violates Roe v. Wade, the 1973 Supreme Court decision that struck down many state laws that restricted abortions.

On Wednesday, the federal judge will decide whether the state of Mississippi can begin a 60- to 90-day administrative process to begin closing the clinic for noncompliance with the new state law. The clinic, which has been in operation for eight years, says this would cause it irreparable harm and could result in its permanent closure.
...
Mississippi is one of the toughest states for the abortion-rights movement. Its laws require a 24-hour waiting period, as well as parental consent if the patient seeking an abortion is a minor. Seven other states require abortion providers to have hospital privileges, but no other state requires that an abortion provider be an OB/GYN, according to the Guttmacher Institute in Washington, a sexual and reproductive health organization.

"All of that is wrapped in that cloak of conservative religion," said W. Martin Wiseman, director of the Stennis Institute of Government at Mississippi State University.

...the real intent of the newly elected Republican majority was to end abortion in the state, not to improve women's health care.

"I love that it's white old men making those statements," she said. "This is not about safety. This is about politics, and politics do not need to be in our uterus."
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Re: Mississippi Goddamn: this time it's abortion

Postby Meade » Wed Jul 11, 2012 3:54 pm

Henry Vilas of Wisconsin loves to tell Mississippians what they should and shouldn't be able to do with their defenseless live human zygotes.
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