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Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby Meade » Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:32 pm

gargantua wrote:PJ, I notice that you left females out of the draft. Why, in 2012, would that be?

Because, duh, females are the weaker sex and need to be kept safe at home, making babies and keeping house. Does PJ really need to spell that out?
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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby pjbogart » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:10 am

gargantua wrote:
pjbogart wrote:Notice, John, that I specifically laid out a scenario where EVERYONE needs to do basic training even if only career military fights the wars. This gives the military the pick of the litter according to how people performed in basic training.

Notice also that I said a "sizable" number of young men would be better off. I'm under no illusion that every veteran is a model citizen.


PJ, I notice that you left females out of the draft. Why, in 2012, would that be? I agree there should be conscription for national service, and a 2/3 majority (at least) of both houses of congress should be necessary to authorize armed conflict for anything other than defense against direct attack against the United States. But I wonder if we've really gone past the male-only presumption of duty and expendability. Doesn't sound like it.


I think there's a probably a little bit of a sexism holdover there, yeah. Women make fine soldiers when they choose to, but I don't think it's wise to try to force them to be soldiers. Besides, sending a married couple to war seems impractical, especially if they have a home and children. Also, if you sent every able-bodied male between 18 and 35 through basic training, wouldn't you have more soldiers than you need?

I have two sisters and a mother in my family and perhaps I can see my older sister in basic training, but my younger sister or my mother would be laughable (at any point in their lives). The cliche is that women are the gentler sex and I think there's some truth to that, biologically and psychologically. That doesn't mean that women can't play football or go hunting, but if they choose not to, I'd go ahead and leave it at that.

Would you make the argument that the average 25 year-old woman is just as strong and capable of deadly force as her male counterpart? For one, women lack testosterone, which everyone knows can turn your average male into a belligerent dickwad even during mundane activities like watching a game of baseball. That's not sexism, it's biology.
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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby minicat » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:36 am

snoqueen wrote:Solutions to all the social/political questions you mentioned should come through better alternatives, which is both politically easier and more nuanced than flatly outlawing something. I don't know why you leap to the big-headline conclusion "we've got to have a constitutional ban" right away.


Sno for president.
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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby peripat » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:36 am

We could solve the whole thing if all women just had their ovaries surgically removed and the eggs fertilized when they hit puberty, though I guess all men would need to be locked up producing sperm for the rest of their lives (to assure they didn't waste any). If all were used It would take 40 weeks to completely overrun the earth with baby humans, which would totally end the inane argument over when life begins.
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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby Meade » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:45 am

pjbogart wrote:That's not sexism, it's biology.

Actually, testosterone is biology. Extrapolating to the general population of women characteristics and information you've observed about your sister and mother is sexism.
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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby Meade » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:55 am

snoqueen wrote:Solutions to all the social/political questions you mentioned should come through better alternatives, which is both politically easier and more nuanced than flatly outlawing something. I don't know why you leap to the big-headline conclusion "we've got to have a constitutional ban" right away. You've done it before (I'm not going to try and find an example but I think one was about guns and the supreme court) so I assume it's some way you're trying to set people up to answer in the affirmative so you can berate and ridicule them.

We're not playing.


But you are playing. Questions about constitutional bans were the topic of the OP.
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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby scratch » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:57 am

pjbogart wrote:I think there's a probably a little bit of a sexism holdover there, yeah. Women make fine soldiers when they choose to, but I don't think it's wise to try to force them to be soldiers.


A universal draft wouldn't have to make every draftee a soldier. There are plenty of other options for national service. I think everyone should be subject to the draft or no one should be subject to the draft.
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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby scratch » Thu Aug 23, 2012 8:59 am

Meade wrote:
mayact4 wrote:"Moment of conception" is just rhetoric intended to push the abortion ban agenda and nothing else.

You have to draw the line somewhere. Would you accept "moment of brain wave activity"?


So you're saying that, at least under the condition you propose, you are as yet unborn?
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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby wack wack » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:01 am

Meade wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:The question is should abortions be outlawed in cases of rape and incest? All else is a diversion.

Says the king of diversion himself.

minicat's questions included support for a constitutional ban on the death penalty and a constitutional ban on going to war with anyone.


Your inability to understand hypocrisy does not make it a diversion.

There should be no limits on abortion. None whatsoever.

As for drawing a line, "human being" begins with the first breath and ends with the last. it is not possible to be a "person" without being a human being, therefore "personhood" can't begin before birth.

This is all so simple and logical. Duh.
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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby johnfajardohenry » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:07 am

fisticuffs wrote:Is it just me or does signing your name after every post, even though your screen name is at the top of the post, seem a little douchy to anyone else? Is there a reason for it at all or is it just an OCD tick?

- Fisticuffs


My screen name is not my name.

In your case, I agree that for you to sign Fisticuffs would be a bit weird.

Been signing my name since 1989 when screen names were limited to 8 characters.

My email at the time was something weird from Compuserve like 7341953.2745.9237 No @, no .com or the like.

John Henry
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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby snoqueen » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:10 am

I think two years of national service (military or other) would be good. Everyone, not just men.

Plenty of women would make good members of the military and plenty would not. I would have been in the latter group, not only because I'm no natural athlete but also because I had an awful attitude problem and likely still do.

I'd have been a worse nurse than soldier so rule that out as well.

But I'd have been pleased to work a couple years for my country in something like the forest service, the Army Corps of Engineers (where I'd have been second-generation), or something else technical. I'm pretty useful there.

Pj's idea of guy-service won't fly in today's equality environment, I'd say, but the universal service part deserves genuine consideration. I think young people might come out with better attitudes, more ready to make responsible educational and career choices. Those first two really-stupid years post high school would be spent in a supervised environment which a lot of kids badly need.
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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby fisticuffs » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:15 am

If we had required national service we wouldn't need to spend billions on mercenary's from companies like Xe. I don;t think they would sit by idle while we take away their corporate welfare.
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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby Meade » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:16 am

wack wack wrote:There should be no limits on abortion. None whatsoever. As for drawing a line, "human being" begins with the first breath and ends with the last. it is not possible to be a "person" without being a human being, therefore "personhood" can't begin before birth.

This would make an excellent plank in the Democrat(ic) Party platform.

Also, drawing the line for legal abortion at "first breath" would have the advantage of efficiency for late-term abortionists by giving complete birth to the nonhuman unperson and then quickly cutting off its head before it can take a breath. Neat and clean.
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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:20 am

Meade wrote:
gargantua wrote:PJ, I notice that you left females out of the draft. Why, in 2012, would that be?

Because, duh, females are the weaker sex and need to be kept safe at home, making babies and keeping house. Does PJ really need to spell that out?

And, according to Meade, they need white men to tell them what medical decisions they can make with their bodies.
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Re: Question for supporters of constitutional abortion ban

Postby wack wack » Thu Aug 23, 2012 9:21 am

Meade wrote:
wack wack wrote:There should be no limits on abortion. None whatsoever. As for drawing a line, "human being" begins with the first breath and ends with the last. it is not possible to be a "person" without being a human being, therefore "personhood" can't begin before birth.

This would make an excellent plank in the Democrat(ic) Party platform.

Also, drawing the line for legal abortion at "first breath" would have the advantage of efficiency for late-term abortionists by giving complete birth to the nonhuman unperson and then quickly cutting off its head before it can take a breath. Neat and clean.


Heh, whadaya know, you are capable of understanding when you want to.
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