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Obama

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Obama

Postby Meade » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:30 am

Henry Vilas wrote:f tax cuts for the top 2% is suppose to pump up our economy and produce jobs, then how come it hasn't worked?

It hasn't worked because Obama's leadership has continually created uncertainty over whether or not taxes will increase, by how much, and on whom.

Percolate up is Obama's stimulus bill - something the evil Republicans, the party of no, were unable to stop. As you know, Obama's stimulus bill was a miserable failure.

Henry Vilas wrote:Most of our economic growth comes from consumer spending.

This is true - consumer spending, NOT government spending.
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Re: Obama

Postby HawkHead » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:37 am

Meade wrote:It hasn't worked because Obama's leadership has continually created uncertainty over whether or not taxes will increase, by how much, and on whom.

Percolate up is Obama's stimulus bill - something the evil Republicans, the party of no, were unable to stop. As you know, Obama's stimulus bill was a miserable failure.


Actually it was Bush's fault by putting a sunset provision into the original tax law.

How about the Republican stimulis bill before Obama's? Should we tell that to the automotive industry?
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Re: Obama

Postby HawkHead » Mon Aug 27, 2012 10:48 am

Sandi wrote:
HawkHead wrote:
Sandi wrote:Guess I would be lower class... I am retired and live on a sole income of @ $1,326 a month.


So I am guessing that you are one of the 47% whiners.

If you are making $7,200 in social security and $8,712 in other income taxed as oridnary income and not investment earnings, your federal tax should be -0- Sandi. ($1,326 * 12 = $15,912)

You either have an intersting tax situation that is different than most or you are not having a correct tax return completed.


Where are you coming up with other income? As I said the $1,326 is all social security.

I guess I would be one of the eceptions in the 47% group, but I never whine about my income or what the govt doesn't do for me. The government doesn't owe me crap, neither do you or any other tax payer.


No, you said you lived on sole income of $1,326/month. So I tried to breakout a reseaonable amount for retirement income on top of a social security portion.

That being said you pay no income tax. I would disagree with your logic. The government owes you a social security check and medicare treatment if you get ill. The also owe you roads, schools, and defense of our country. It cost a lot of money to have a well running civil society.

Maybe the real issue isn't that the 47% are whiners (like you aren't a whiner) but that the Republican's portray them as whiners to advance their position.
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Re: Obama

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:05 am

DCB wrote:Right, that's why there are so many wealthy poor people.


So are we talking about wealth or income in this thread?

I have a lot of trouble keeping the two straight here.

No trouble at all keeping them straight in the real world. Just here in this forum.

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Re: Obama

Postby Meade » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:06 am

HawkHead wrote:Actually it was Bush's fault by putting a sunset provision into the original tax law.

Agreed. Now, what, I wonder, can we do about that? Any ideas? Besides crying and blaming Bush, I mean.

HawkHead wrote:How about the Republican stimulis bill before Obama's? Should we tell that to the automotive industry?

Yes.
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Re: Obama

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:07 am

Meade wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:f tax cuts for the top 2% is suppose to pump up our economy and produce jobs, then how come it hasn't worked?

It hasn't worked because Obama's leadership has continually created uncertainty over whether or not taxes will increase, by how much, and on whom.

That sounds like Walker's excuses for the lack of job growth in Wisconsin, even after he gave hundreds of millions in tax breaks to corporations.

You blame Obama, but what about during the Bush administrations? How come the tax breaks he signed into law didn't do the trick when he was in office?
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Re: Obama

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:08 am

jonnygothispen wrote:(no one paid 91% anyway)


Bingo!

I think the lad has got it.

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Re: Obama

Postby Meade » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:17 am

Henry Vilas wrote:You blame Obama, but what about during the Bush administrations?

I blame Obama because, for the last 3+ years, Bush has not been president. Forward, Henry. Ever heard of it?
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Re: Obama

Postby HawkHead » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:23 am

Meade wrote:
HawkHead wrote:Actually it was Bush's fault by putting a sunset provision into the original tax law.

Agreed. Now, what, I wonder, can we do about that? Any ideas? Besides crying and blaming Bush, I mean.

HawkHead wrote:How about the Republican stimulis bill before Obama's? Should we tell that to the automotive industry?

Yes.


So in your first post you blamed Obama and then in the second post to my response you point out it was Bush's fault and fault me for "crying and blaming Bush." :oops:

To your second point, are you admitting that the stimulus wasn't all a waste?

Now instead of tit for tat or whatever you are trying to play at.

President Obama has come up with a taxation plan that Boehner and the Rs say will never pass the House. Walker got his way in Wisconsin shouldn't we allow Obama the same lattitude? You blame an uncertain tax policy and try to place the blame on Obama. The uncertainy exists because we have a disfunctional legislature not because of Obama and I would squarely put the blame on the Rs with a side of Ds. This idea from the Teas Party that compromise is unacceptable is laughable. If the Tea Party had existed in the 1770's we would still be a colony of the British Empire.

The debt ceiling debate was a perfect example of it. The Rs were willing to damage our country to make a point on spending that they approved but wanted to cap the amount of debt we could have. Complete nonsense. If you pass the budget and the spending (which the Congress does) would exceed your debt limit you are implying with your vote that the debt ceiling must be raised. Why we have a debt ceiling to me is ridiculous. Then after the spending is approved you hijack the downstream flow to make political points.
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Re: Obama

Postby Sandi » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:43 am

The government owes you a social security check and medicare treatment if you get ill.


Well I would not say they "owe" it to me, that is my own money that I paid in up until age 62 when I reired. No, it is not actually the money I sent in, because that they spent as fast as it came in.

Maybe the real issue isn't that the 47% are whiners (like you aren't a whiner) but that the Republican's portray them as whiners to advance their position.


Granted whiners was a poor word choice. Let me just tell you what bothers me: that is the growing trend where more people think the government should take care of us, but that isn't how it works unless we are disabled physically or mentally. For the rest of us, we are obligated to take care of ourselves.

If we don't want to be in the 47 percent, we should work hard and get into the 53 percent: which I would do if I was not 71-yr-old and because of my age almost unemployable.

However I can live fairly well on my $1326 a month, although it took a bit of belt tightening, and getting used to budgeting. So I don't complain and expect the government ( you and other taxpayers ) to give me a handout. Besides I keep myself busy running 3 forums of my own, and make forum add-ons ( for free ) for a comercial forum software company.

I suppose most of the time I sound like a republican and I do consider myself conservative, but occasionally vote for a democrat.
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Re: Obama

Postby Meade » Mon Aug 27, 2012 11:53 am

HawkHead wrote:If the Tea Party had existed in the 1770's we would still be a colony of the British Empire.

Yeah, the Framers were all about compromising with the British.
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Re: Obama

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:15 pm

I forget now whether I found this via Limbaugh (David or Rush), Hannity, Drudge or Daily Kos.

In any event, it is hilarious. It is the official Obama campaign tribute to Neal Armstrong that appears on the official Obama campaign Tumblr page.

Naturally, instead of a picture of Armstrong, to whom they are paying tribute, they have a picture of the Big O gazing at the moon.

http://barackobama.tumblr.com/post/3019 ... ll-the-men

Priceless.

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Re: Obama

Postby HawkHead » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:16 pm

Meade wrote:
HawkHead wrote:If the Tea Party had existed in the 1770's we would still be a colony of the British Empire.

Yeah, the Framers were all about compromising with the British.


That you don't understand that at all just highlights my point.
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Re: Obama

Postby HawkHead » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:39 pm

Sandi wrote:Granted whiners was a poor word choice. Let me just tell you what bothers me: that is the growing trend where more people think the government should take care of us, but that isn't how it works unless we are disabled physically or mentally. For the rest of us, we are obligated to take care of ourselves.



Do you have proof of a growing trend or are you repeating what you have heard on conservative "news" programs?

In 2008 we were hit with an almost complete meltdown of the financial industry. Millions of jobs were lost per month. When this happens the government is supposed to spend money to protect its citizens. Is it better to let millions of people to go hungry or give them food stamps? Do you think that a million hungry people wouldn't then start stealing and assaulting people with "money" to feed themselves?

The issue I have is that in good econmic times the government should be cutting back on services and saving money for a rainny day. Less people without jobs means less welfare and food stamps.

Talk to any economist on this. When the economy is going poorly the governments responsibilty is to stimulate the economy. When the economy is going well they should be pulling out and letting the free markets determine the growth (with appropiate oversight, like making sure our water isn't being poisoned by industrial run-off).

The other issue is the military. We spend just about the same as (basically but not exactly factually correct) every other nation combined. If we aren't safe and secure maybe we aren't spending the money effectively. But the Rs can't find a penny in the military's budget to cut.

Basically to sum this up.

If I had a struggling client that needed a loan from a bank, I would never tell the bank we are going to cut our revenues 20% and cut our spending 70% so give me a loan. I also wouldn't go into a bank and say we are going to increase revenue 20% and increase spending 40%. I would show the banker a way to increase revenues and cut wasteful spending and create the needed cash flow to service the businesses bank debt.

Obviously, the Rs cut revenues cut spending doesn't work and neither does
the Ds increase revenues increase spending. We need to actively confront the issues but when you have one faction of one party (the Tea Party) not allowing any compromise everything is pretty much DOA.
Last edited by HawkHead on Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Obama

Postby HawkHead » Mon Aug 27, 2012 12:42 pm

Somehow I got a double post.
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