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CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Broadsheet » Thu Nov 29, 2012 11:09 am

I'm bleakly amused to see the corporations moving up their dividends and investors taking capital gains now to avoid possible taxation of more than 15 percent on "unearned income" next year.

Their fears of their grandchildren being crushed under federal debt are no match for their short-term personal interests when it comes to denying the federal government revenue.
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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:41 am



Ignoring the morality or immorality of this for the moment, why do you act surprised?

Isn't this exactly what many said would happen?

And what about the legality of not doing the layoffs? Companies have a legal responsibility to their stockholders. If they do not operate in a financially sound manner, they may be in violation of federal laws such as Sarbanes-Oxely and others. They are also, rightly, subject to being sued by their owners.

So hold off on your self-rightous indignation and crocodile tears. You progressives made this happen. You did it knowing full well what you were doing and what the results would be.

Own it.

John Henry
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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:47 am

rabble wrote:And he's shocked, shocked, that all those good citizen Republican business owners are using every dirty trick.


Yeah, those dirty Republican bastards at Costco are now going to cheat the government out of over a $500,000,000 by paying dividends in 2012 instead of 2013. Just think how many cell phones the govt could have bought with that money. Now it will just go to stock holders and who will waste it on stuff they find useful.

Even worse, they are paying the dividend with borrowed money!

The horror, the horror!

Oh, wait, did I say republican bastards? I meant democrat bastartddemmies. Costco was a huge Obama supporter.

Enjoy the ride!

John Henry
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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Broadsheet » Fri Nov 30, 2012 7:32 am

Once again the lie is repeated that shareholders can sue if a company does not pursue increasing shareholder value as its sole corporate aim. See Lynn Stout, "The Shareholder Value Myth: How putting shareholders first harms investors, corporations, and the public." She documents that the doctrine of shareholder value is "an ideology, not a legal requirement or a practical necessity of modern business life." And she shows how pursuing it -- cutting costs on safety and other expenses -- costs companies much more, citing cases like BP's Deepwater Horizon oil spill.
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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:39 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:Just think how many cell phones the govt could have bought with that money.


This is why people don't take you seriously:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp

The website won't let me paste quotes, so I guess you'll have to figure it out for yourself.
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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:35 pm

Broadsheet wrote:Once again the lie is repeated that shareholders can sue if a company does not pursue increasing shareholder value as its sole corporate aim.


I have no idea what she is talking about and apparently neither does she. Nor do I intend to buy her book to find out. (Have you read it?) It is a "lie" that stockholders can sue if a company does not pursue increasing corporate value?

Bullshit.

Not only can they sue, they do so quite frequently. There are whole law firms whose main practices are finding firms to sue, threatening to sue and then either suing or taking money to go away. Here is one such firm and a list of their 17 ongoing lawsuits:
http://shareholderlawsuitscenter.com/la ... suits.html

Increasing corporate value is a bit of a nebulous term, I grant you. See Henry Ford vs the Dodge Brothers back in 1917. They owned a chunk of Ford Motor and sued claiming that by decreasing the prices, Ford was devaluing the stock. It was going up but not as fast as the Dodges thought it should. They won that case. The real issue was whether Ford should be maximizing long term or short term value.

However, by continually dropping the price of the cars, Ford drove volume and increased shareholder value long term.

If the corporation does not exist to maximize shareholder value (however defined and over long or short term etc) What, pray tell, does it exist for at all?

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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:45 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
johnfajardohenry wrote:Just think how many cell phones the govt could have bought with that money.


This is why people don't take you seriously:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp

The website won't let me paste quotes, so I guess you'll have to figure it out for yourself.


You mean where it says:

True: A federal program subsidizes providers who supply telephone services to low-income consumers.



It goes on to explain the Lifeline program http://www.fcc.gov/lifeline and how it uses taxpayer money to provide cellphone as well as landline service.

I can understand why you were reluctant to quote. You seem like a dishonest weasel here. Not just mistaken, dishonest by saying Snopes claims one thing when it clearly claims something 180 degrees opposite.

I would suggest that you read the page your own self.

John Henry
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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:47 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote: Nor do I intend to buy her book to find out.


God forbid you read something that questions your vast knowledge of everything in life.

Seriously, what the hell does a distinguished corporate law professor have on a distinguished refrigeration professor.
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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:51 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:It goes on to explain the Lifeline program http://www.fcc.gov/lifeline and how it uses taxpayer money to provide cellphone as well as landline service.


Some consumers may notice a “Universal Service” line item on their telephone bills. This line item appears when a company chooses to recover its USF contributions directly from its customers by billing them this charge. The FCC does not require this charge to be passed on to customers.


Jackass.
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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:58 pm

http://www.usac.org/about/tools/procure ... fault.aspx

USAC is an independent, not-for-profit corporation designated as the permanent administrator of the federal universal service programs and the universal service fund (USF) by the Federal Communications Commission pursuant to Part 54 of Title 47 of the Code of Federal Regulations.

USAC is not a federal government agency or department or a government controlled corporation as that term is defined in Sections 9101-02 of Title 31 of the United States Code. USAC administers the USF and the universal service programs for high cost companies serving rural areas, low-income consumers, rural health care providers, and schools and libraries. The USF helps provide communities across the country with affordable telecommunications services.


The federal rules allow you to have a Lifeline discount on one home telephone or one wireless telephone. You may not get Lifeline discounts on two telephones.


Free phone? Huh? Jackass.
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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby rabble » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:07 pm

Stebben84 wrote:The website won't let me paste quotes, so I guess you'll have to figure it out for yourself.

You can get around that by disabling javascript but for most browsers it's not a one-click thing.
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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Stebben84 » Fri Nov 30, 2012 2:34 pm

rabble wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:The website won't let me paste quotes, so I guess you'll have to figure it out for yourself.

You can get around that by disabling javascript but for most browsers it's not a one-click thing.


What, are you some know-it-all like JH? :D
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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby rabble » Fri Nov 30, 2012 3:07 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
rabble wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:The website won't let me paste quotes, so I guess you'll have to figure it out for yourself.

You can get around that by disabling javascript but for most browsers it's not a one-click thing.


What, are you some know-it-all like JH? :D

I wrote a paper on it once.
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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:19 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote: You seem like a dishonest weasel here.

Projecting.
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Re: CEO's threaten layoffs if Obama wins

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Dec 01, 2012 11:43 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:

Ignoring the morality or immorality of this for the moment, why do you act surprised?

Who said I was suprised? Corporations will do anything within the rules (and many things outside the rules) to maximize their short term profits. But they are often penny wise while pound foolish. And they usually give short shrift to their employees. They use the bankruptcy laws to get rid of employee pension programs while at the same time granting exorbitant bonuses to top management. But when individuals used bankruptcy to cancel out crushing debts, they whined to Congress, resulting in the elimination of bankruptcy protection for the average person.
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