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Rove tries to "swiftboat" Obama with new ad

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Rove tries to "swiftboat" Obama with new ad

Postby ilikebeans » Fri Oct 19, 2012 12:36 pm

Considering the traction the whole Benghazi affair and the phrase "act of terror" has had with the nutters on the right, naturally our favorite asshole-behind-the-curtain, Karl Rove, sees an opening:

The ad, “Act of Terror,” which started airing on October 18, is being heralded by some on the right as a stinging rebuke to President Obama’s foreign policy because it insinuates that Obama intentionally misled the American people in the wake of the assassination of Ambassador Chris Stevens and three other Americans in Libya in September.
...
It is artfully edited to omit the fact that moderator Candy Crowley stopped Romney in midstream during the debate and confirmed that President Obama did in fact use the phrase “act of terror” in a speech on September 12, the day after the tragedy.

And, of course, his tried-and-true tactic is spelled out nicely in the article:

Republicans are attacking because GOP “polling and focus groups show that voters believe that President Obama has done a very good job fighting terrorists. Therefore, the Rove theory says, you attack Obama on terrorism.”
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Re: Rove tries to "swiftboat" Obama with new ad

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri Oct 19, 2012 3:13 pm

Is the author really comparing this with the John Kerry Swiftboat attack?

(also does the author really consider editing out a bit of video footage to be artful?)

Obama got hit with a nasty foreign policy failure less than two months before the election and has done a rather piss poor job of handling it from a public perception stand point. Why would the right not jump on it? Since when did foreign policy and foreign policy mistakes become off limits in an election?

For that matter since when did intentionally misrepresenting what your opponent said become off limits? Both sides do it. Rove just happens to be better at it that most. Sure he's an asshole. So are most of the people throwing large amounts of cash at the media to tell us what to think.

The point is, he has a right to call into question Obama's performance in regards to this attack, and given that Obama is touting his success against terrorism, he has a right to question that as well.

There's really no comparison between asking legitimate questions about a current event and the president's handling of such events, and having a bunch of guys disparage a candidates past military record. Sadly Unger's probably right if he thinks that headline was necessary to sell the story. It really doesn't have much going for it otherwise. "Rove's new ad attacks job the president did recently" isn't nearly as catchy, even if it's far more accurate.
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Re: Rove tries to "swiftboat" Obama with new ad

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Oct 19, 2012 4:43 pm

Beans,

Doesn't your use of the word "Swiftboat" imply that the ad is factually correct?

As I recall there were 4 claims made by the Swiftboat vets.

Kerry admitted that all were true.

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Re: Rove tries to "swiftboat" Obama with new ad

Postby rabble » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:03 pm

Oh?

Huh. I don't suppose you can come up with anything better than "as I recall" by any chance?

http://www.snopes.com/politics/kerry/swift.asp

Or do we "just have to take your word for it"?
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Re: Rove tries to "swiftboat" Obama with new ad

Postby Meade » Fri Oct 19, 2012 5:10 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Is the author really comparing this with the John Kerry Swiftboat attack?

Francis is correct to question this use of the term "swift boat".

Far more apt would be a comparison of the Obama administration's coverup and obfuscation on the Benghazi attack to LBJ's "credibility gap" between his administration's declarations of controlled military and political resolution, and the reality.

Like Obama and the war on Islamist terror, LBJ had a political interest in not leveling with the American people on the war in Vietnam.

Obamfuscation.
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Re: Rove tries to "swiftboat" Obama with new ad

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:09 pm

Meade wrote:Far more apt would be a comparison of the Obama administration's coverup and obfuscation on the Benghazi attack to LBJ's "credibility gap" between his administration's declarations of controlled military and political resolution, and the reality.

Like Obama and the war on Islamist terror, LBJ had a political interest in not leveling with the American people on the war in Vietnam.

Obamfuscation.


Since the author is writing an article about the ad Rove is sponsoring, that really wouldn't be an apt comparison at all. Also, comparing LBJ's attempts to obfuscate the state of the war in Vietnam, and Obama being unclear as to what happened in Libya is a rather major stretch.

I suppose a good comparison for the Rove ad might be the Wille Horton ad.
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Re: Rove tries to "swiftboat" Obama with new ad

Postby pjbogart » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:38 pm

Ooooh, let me play! Obama's failure to protect Ambassador Stevens in Libya was like Hitler killing Jews, only worse. Much like Obama, Hitler was a socialist who promised the Jews that socialism would be good for them, but they found out otherwise. Obama used propaganda and lies, much like Hitler with his SS and Goebels to, uh, convince the American people that he, uh, actually called it terrorism the next day when it actually took him two weeks, which is kind of like the Holocaust in a way.

If Obama had been a strong leader, like Mitt Romney, he would have called it terrorism right away, which probably would have saved Ambassador Stevens' life. Instead, he acted like Hitler and as a result Ambassador Stevens stayed dead.

I gotta start one of those blogs, that's worth at least a few million hits when they quote me on Fox.
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Re: Rove tries to "swiftboat" Obama with new ad

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Oct 19, 2012 10:57 pm

rabble wrote:Oh?

Huh. I don't suppose you can come up with anything better than "as I recall" by any chance?


Kerry claimed to have been in Cambodia on Christmas 1968. He went beyond a casual claim, he said that he was dropping off a CIA guy who gave him a hat (seems unlikely that a guy going into the bush woud do that) and he said on several occasions in 2004 that he carried the hat with him "to this day", though he never showed it to anyone.

Turns out that he was 50 miles away from Cambodia at the time at a base camp.

He later claimed to have gotten the date confused even thought is was "..seared, seared, in my memory."

He then tried to claim that he was between Cambodia and Vietnam. That is like someone claiming to be between Texas and Mexico. Its a border.

See this article in the WaPo "Kerry's Cambodian Whopper" from 2004

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ar ... Aug23.html

Kerry had claimed to have thrown away his medals in disgust. The Swift Boaters pointed out that he had the medals hanging on his Senate office wall. Kerry later admitted that he had thrown away a friend's medals

Read this article:

"And an article in Monday's New York Times says that Kerry gave a 1971 television interview in which he appeared to suggest that he had given his own medals back.

The New York Times describes the transcript of that television interview -- which it says was archived by President Nixon's communications office and held by the National Archives -- this way:

An interviewer asks Kerry, "How many did you give back, John?"

Kerry responds, "I gave back, I can't remember, six, seven, eight, nine."

The interviewer then notes that Kerry had won the Purple Hearts and Bronze and Silver stars. Kerry says, "Well, and above that, I gave my others."

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-04-26/poli ... LLPOLITICS

NY Times article is here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/26/us/19 ... otest.html

The other charge is that 3-400 of his shipmates didn't think he was fit to be prez. I suppose we could question whether they had good reasons or not but it seems indisputable that they signed the statement.

One of the reasons they thought he was unfit to serve were his false claims before Congress as a member of the Winter Soldier group. He has admitted that he embroidered his testimony to make it more melodramatic. He was still in the navy at the time, IIRC.

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Re: Rove tries to "swiftboat" Obama with new ad

Postby pjbogart » Fri Oct 19, 2012 11:37 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:The other charge is that 3-400 of his shipmates didn't think he was fit to be prez. I suppose we could question whether they had good reasons or not but it seems indisputable that they signed the statement.


This, actually, is the "swiftboating". You claim that you were in the Navy, John. Were your "shipmates" people on your ship or were they anyone who happened to be in the Navy at the same time as you?

The "Swiftboaters" claimed to have served with John Kerry. But by "served with" they simply meant "were in the same war". If Mitt Romney or Barack Obama had served in the Navy with you, John, would you feel comfortable making statements about their service record even if you had never met either one of them?

The "Swiftboaters" were liars. It's no surprise that you'd defend them.
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Re: Rove tries to "swiftboat" Obama with new ad

Postby Meade » Sat Oct 20, 2012 8:43 am

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Also, comparing LBJ's attempts to obfuscate the state of the war in Vietnam, and Obama being unclear as to what happened in Libya is a rather major stretch.


Come on, you guys. It’s only an American ambassador and three other Americans who served their country, murdered by Islamic terrorists on the anniversary of 9/11. In a country our president invaded unilaterally and, arguably, illegally.

And our government only ignored the copious warnings of an impending terrorist attack on the consulate in Benghazi, and actually reduced security there, despite the since-murdered ambassador’s entreaties.

And our president has only been lying about it for over a month because it reflects very badly on his self-evidently disastrous foreign policy.
http://dailycaller.com/2012/10/19/whats ... z29qY18Mga
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Re: Rove tries to "swiftboat" Obama with new ad

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:30 am

pjbogart wrote:This, actually, is the "swiftboating". You claim that you were in the Navy, John. Were your "shipmates" people on your ship or were they anyone who happened to be in the Navy at the same time as you?


Strictly speaking, the latter.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shipmate

However, in the case of the 3-400, they were all men who had served on Swiftboats at the same time as Kerry. Most (all?) served in his same unit. Most (all?) would have had first hand knowledge of Kerry and his character.

I suppose that if you don't want to argue about the dishonesty of Kerry's claims about his service, getting into a definition of "shipmate" is as good a way to change the subject as any.

We could also talk about Kerry, while still a Naval Officer, bound by his oath, met with the North Vietnamese (A/K/A "the enemy") in Paris in 1971. This probably meets the legal definition of "treason" under the UCMJ and federal law. In the past, officers have been shot for less.

"About one year earlier, two young Americans had also come to Paris, arguably for their honeymoon -- John Kerry, a young, clean-shaven Navy war veteran, accompanied by his new wife, the former Julia Thorne, whose lineage traced back to George Washington.

But honeymooning was not John Kerry's only purpose in traveling to Paris. Kerry's presidential campaign has now acknowledged that he "talked privately with a leading communist representative" there."

http://www.wintersoldier.com/staticpage ... 1205043310

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Re: Rove tries to "swiftboat" Obama with new ad

Postby david cohen » Sat Oct 20, 2012 9:55 am

It's the last, desperate gasp by Karl Rove to stay relevant. I don't blame the Obama administration for not going with the intel reports immediately after the deaths in Bengahzi. Look at what the intel reports told Bush about Iraq. Obama proceeded cautiously, and the GOP pounced on and have now distorted that caution.
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Re: Rove tries to "swiftboat" Obama with new ad

Postby Meade » Sat Oct 20, 2012 10:32 am

david cohen wrote:Obama proceeded cautiously, and the GOP pounced on and have now distorted that caution.

Yeah - cautiously attributing the attack to a nonexistent protest of a video turned violent. Way to be cautious, Lyndon Barack Johnson.
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Re: Rove tries to "swiftboat" Obama with new ad

Postby DCB » Sat Oct 20, 2012 5:33 pm

Fortunately the Republicans are focused on getting all the facts out, even the inconvenient ones:
House Oversight Committee Chairman Darrell Issa (R-CA) compromised the identities of several Libyans working with the U.S. government and placed their lives in danger when he released reams of State Department communications Friday, according to Obama administration officials.
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