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Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

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Re: Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

Postby pjbogart » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:52 am

Huckleby wrote:
Detritus wrote:First of all, they're not "illegals." It is not illegal to be in the country without valid documentation.

I could be wrong, but I think technically it is illegal to be here without valid documentation, however it is not a crime. Administrative law still counts as a law. But hey, I'm not a lawyer, I just play one in the forum.


Well, I don't want to put words in Detritus' mouth, but I think he's pointing out that the term "illegals" is inherently offensive. When you say "illegal" alien, that's an adjective to describe an alien. But "illegals" is a noun and seems to imply that there is something illegal about them as people. That's offensive. If "undocumented workers" is too flowery, or implies they're working when you suspect they aren't, fine. But Republicans use of the word "illegals" is no more accidental than their use of the term "Democrat Party." It's dog whistle politics and even if you don't see the offensive nature of the word "illegals," the people you're referring to do.
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Re: Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

Postby Mad Howler » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:07 am

"Now I don't have the facts to back this up" but I get the feeling that some clowns are hitting a point of diminishing returns.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/atwater/

Or grab the book and read it.
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Re: Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

Postby Ned Flanders » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:48 pm

So what's the message? We should pick and choose which laws to follow? And reward those who have broken the law?

Sounds like a solid plan for a stable republic to me. Pass the bananas.
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Re: Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Nov 09, 2012 12:56 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:So what's the message? We should pick and choose which laws to follow? And reward those who have broken the law?

Like the Republican governors who refuse to implement the Affordable Health Care Law?
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Re: Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:07 pm

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Re: Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

Postby fisticuffs » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:11 pm

Sean Hannity, John Boehner say GOP should tackle immigration reform


They don't really have to tackle anything. Republicans helped write and have sponsored the DREAM Act in 2001, 2007, 2009 and 2001. They just decided it was more politically advantageous to filibuster their own legislation. They don't even have to VOTE for it. Just get out of the way.
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Re: Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

Postby Detritus » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:21 pm

Ned Flanders wrote:So what's the message? We should pick and choose which laws to follow? And reward those who have broken the law?

Sounds like a solid plan for a stable republic to me. Pass the bananas.

How about changing the laws? Or is that too radical for the Nedders among us, at least when it involves people who are already born?
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Re: Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

Postby rabble » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:37 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Ned Flanders wrote:So what's the message? We should pick and choose which laws to follow? And reward those who have broken the law?

Like the Republican governors who refuse to implement the Affordable Health Care Law?

Yeah, darling neddy, do tell us why that's completely different from this.
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Re: Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

Postby Huckleby » Fri Nov 09, 2012 1:58 pm

pjbogart wrote:Well, I don't want to put words in Detritus' mouth, but I think he's pointing out that the term "illegals" is inherently offensive. When you say "illegal" alien, that's an adjective to describe an alien. But "illegals" is a noun and seems to imply that there is something illegal about them as people. That's offensive. If "undocumented workers" is too flowery, or implies they're working when you suspect they aren't, fine. But Republicans use of the word "illegals" is no more accidental than their use of the term "Democrat Party." It's dog whistle politics and even if you don't see the offensive nature of the word "illegals," the people you're referring to do.


I can't argue with anything you say. But I'm not sure you appreciate why I have stuck with the word "illegal" in the context of internet debates, it is a calculated decision and I think the right one. Perhaps a tipping point has been reached and it is time to change my ways.
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Re: Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

Postby Huckleby » Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:02 pm



Amazing. I read about Sean & John Excellent Adventure here:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ele ... rc=nl_wonk

This is a very big deal. Not for Boehner, I expect he is a smart, moderate Republican who has been for amnesty for 20 years. Sean Hannity jumping over to the light side is a game changer. I'm somewhat shocked.

I guess the rumors of the death of the Republican Party are exaggerated.
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Re: Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

Postby fisticuffs » Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:06 pm

Sean Hannity jumping over to the light side is a game changer.


Don't worry. They'll continue to punt on immigration, continue to demonize all Latinos and trot out a few more brown faces between now and 2016 as their proof they are the party best suited to represent Latinos.
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Re: Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

Postby Huckleby » Fri Nov 09, 2012 2:37 pm

Robert Murdoch, owner of Fox News, Wall Street Journal, etc. tweeted:
@rupertmurdoch: Must have sweeping, generous immigration reform,make existing law- abiding Hispanics welcome. Most are hard working family people.
I think it's over.

http://view.ed4.net/v/X109GB/40JVHG/GD9 ... 1&FORMAT=H
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Re: Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

Postby chance » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:03 pm

If the GOP had a bad position on immigration because they just sort of stumbled into it accidentally, they would have a shot at “fixing” it by adopting a more reasonable position. But they can’t. The GOP’s immigration problem goes way beyond immigration. The GOP’s position on immigration reflects and is driven by the deep-seated racism and xenophobia that also drives GOP doctrine on many issues.

We're coming to the end of a long ugly road for the GOP’s Southern strategy. It just isn't going to work that well any more. The Republicans will not be a viable 21st-Century party until they shit out that impacted turd of racists that is their "base".
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Re: Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

Postby Ned Flanders » Fri Nov 09, 2012 3:40 pm

chance wrote:If the GOP had a bad position on immigration because they just sort of stumbled into it accidentally, they would have a shot at “fixing” it by adopting a more reasonable position. But they can’t. The GOP’s immigration problem goes way beyond immigration. The GOP’s position on immigration reflects and is driven by the deep-seated racism and xenophobia that also drives GOP doctrine on many issues.

We're coming to the end of a long ugly road for the GOP’s Southern strategy. It just isn't going to work that well any more. The Republicans will not be a viable 21st-Century party until they shit out that impacted turd of racists that is their "base".

I think you forgot about the part about RR granting a "one time" amnesty to millions of illegal aliens, but, by all means continue your rant.
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Re: Did G.O.P. get message on Immigration?

Postby rabble » Fri Nov 09, 2012 4:32 pm

Huckleby wrote:Robert Murdoch, owner of Fox News, Wall Street Journal, etc. tweeted:
@rupertmurdoch: Must have sweeping, generous immigration reform,make existing law- abiding Hispanics welcome. Most are hard working family people.
I think it's over.

http://view.ed4.net/v/X109GB/40JVHG/GD9 ... 1&FORMAT=H

We'll see. I have my doubts. Yeah, they're making noises but if the gains they make are balanced by losing the tea party "NO COMPROMISES!" idiots they've spent so much time cultivating, what good will it do?
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