MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus:         Newsletters 
Monday, November 24, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 37.0° F  Light Rain Fog/Mist
Collapse Photo Bar

Politics and the CT shooting

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby johnfajardohenry » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:57 pm

pjbogart wrote:I honestly don't care how many ridiculous opinions Mr. Henry offers, but if he's going to post statistics and facts, I expect them to be accurate and sourced.


Do you plan to start applying this standard to yourself?

If so, I look forward to the new and improved PJ.

John Henry
johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1348
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby johnfajardohenry » Tue Dec 18, 2012 8:59 pm

kurt_w wrote:What kind of deranged person writes something like that?


What kind of deranged person makes a movie like Farenheit 9/11?

What kind of deranged people spend money going to see it? Lots and lots, apparently. Michael Moore made a ton of money off these millions of deranged people, didn't he?

Were you one, Kurt? Have you seen the movie, Kurt?

John Henry
johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1348
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby johnfajardohenry » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:09 pm

Stebben84 wrote:I guess the shoe bomber didn't get the memo. Unsuccessful yes, but not because the pilots have guns.


On the other hand, since pilots have been armed, there have been zero attempts, AFAIK, to hijack any US planes.

So that is one vector of possible attack that seems to have dried up.

BTW: Wasn't the CT school legally a "gun free zone"? Shouldn't the shooter have been arrested merely for having a gun within 100' of a school?

How did that work out?

"When seconds count, the police are only minutes away."

20 minutes away, in Sandy Hook, according to CNN

"Police and other first responders arrived on scene about 20 minutes after the first calls."

http://edition.cnn.com/interactive/2012 ... k-timeline

John Henry
johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1348
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby kurt_w » Tue Dec 18, 2012 9:35 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:Is it possible that these shootings, at least some of them, are actually done by the government as false flag operations? So 28 people had to be killed in CT? That might be a small price to pay to advance some govt policy.

[...]]

why would Obama ordering shooting up a school be so implausible?
kurt_w
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 5266
Joined: Tue Jul 22, 2003 3:11 pm

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby rabble » Tue Dec 18, 2012 11:14 pm

rabble
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6457
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby pjbogart » Wed Dec 19, 2012 12:09 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:Johnygothispen might be one person to ask whether 9/11 was a false flag operation or inside job carried out by members of the US govt.


I actually used to have Johnygothispen on ignore for exactly that reason, but he's tamed considerably and all of that was long before your time here, Mr. Henry. Unless you've been coming under other names or receiving tips from other forons. Not that it matters much, but I'd have to admit that I'm curious how you knew that Johny was a truther. Almost as curious as I am about why a refrigeration specialist from Puerto Rico would set up camp on a local BBS in Madison, Wisconsin.

I'm not sure what disinformation you're accusing me of spreading, but I know that I repeated some of the media reports which turned out false. Insubstantial errors, however, such as whether the the shooter's mother worked at the school and what kind of assault rifle was used in the murders. Hardly the type of calculated misinformation you like to drop around here. I guess in colloquial speech we call that the difference between a mistake and a lie. I make mistakes. You lie.

And no, I don't accept that the US isn't in the top ten for violent crime. In fact, I offer no opinion on the subject at all. You certainly didn't offer any meaningful statistics on the matter. You offered an obscure blog with an unsourced chart. My problem with your post isn't that I dispute the claim, it's that you offer no reasonable means of verifying it. The short Googling I did on the subject revealed that because of dramatically different categorizations and compilation of statistics, it's difficult to compare countries' violent crime statistics.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you seem to be the sort of person who would believe anything that reinforced something that you already believe. Verification be damned. If it seems like it should be right, then it must be right.
pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6183
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby jjoyce » Wed Dec 19, 2012 11:20 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:On the other hand, since pilots have been armed, there have been zero attempts, AFAIK, to hijack any US planes.
jjoyce
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 12168
Joined: Tue Apr 17, 2001 4:48 pm
Location: Madison, WI

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Dec 19, 2012 6:48 pm

Image
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20150
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby johnfajardohenry » Sun Dec 23, 2012 8:06 pm

The CT shooting overshadowed another shooting that took place a few days earlier in an Oregon mall. Two dead plus the gunman one seriously injured.

There is another problem with this shooting: It doesn't fit the agenda.

When the shooter started firing, Nick Meli was there and carrying his, legal, concealed handgun. He pulled it on the shooter but did not fire. The shooter ran around a corner and shot himself.

PORTLAND -- Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.

"I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?,'" he said.

The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.

"He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side."

The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.

"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.

Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.

"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."


http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-a ... 93571.html

One of the interesting things, to me, is how little coverage this got. NT Times and WaPo both had a number of stories but a search for Meli turned up nothing. The gist of the stories seems to be just got tired or something.

The police arrived when it was all over.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Also, the mall was a "Gun Free Zone". Yeah, that seems to be the way to stop shooters. Fortunately Meli didn't realize this.

John Henry
johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1348
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby Slick Willy » Sun Dec 23, 2012 9:09 pm

johnfajardohenry wrote:The police arrived when it was all over.

What, no mall cops?

Gun-free zone or not, shooting two or three people in a mall only takes a matter of seconds and is almost impossible to stop, especially when using an assault weapon like he was. All the more reason to ban the general public from being able to buy assault weapons.
Slick Willy
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 366
Joined: Sun Sep 10, 2006 12:54 am
Location: Madison, WI (Allied-Dunn's Marsh Neighborhood)

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby GordonFreeman » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:24 am

That La Peiere NRA dude is literally foaming at the mouth on Meet the Press. Funny stuff. And man does he blink alot and long duration. I had a boss like that once, easy tell for lying.
GordonFreeman
Senior Member
 
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:48 pm

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby wack wack » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:43 am

johnfajardohenry wrote:The CT shooting overshadowed another shooting that took place a few days earlier in an Oregon mall. Two dead plus the gunman one seriously injured.

There is another problem with this shooting: It doesn't fit the agenda.

When the shooter started firing, Nick Meli was there and carrying his, legal, concealed handgun. He pulled it on the shooter but did not fire. The shooter ran around a corner and shot himself.

PORTLAND -- Nick Meli is emotionally drained. The 22-year-old was at Clackamas Town Center with a friend and her baby when a masked man opened fire.

"I heard three shots and turned and looked at Casey and said, 'are you serious?,'" he said.

The friend and baby hit the floor. Meli, who has a concealed carry permit, positioned himself behind a pillar.

"He was working on his rifle," said Meli. "He kept pulling the charging handle and hitting the side."

The break in gunfire allowed Meli to pull out his own gun, but he never took his eyes off the shooter.

"As I was going down to pull, I saw someone in the back of the Charlotte move, and I knew if I fired and missed, I could hit them," he said.

Meli took cover inside a nearby store. He never pulled the trigger. He stands by that decision.

"I'm not beating myself up cause I didn't shoot him," said Meli. "I know after he saw me, I think the last shot he fired was the one he used on himself."


http://www.kgw.com/news/Clackamas-man-a ... 93571.html

One of the interesting things, to me, is how little coverage this got. NT Times and WaPo both had a number of stories but a search for Meli turned up nothing. The gist of the stories seems to be just got tired or something.

The police arrived when it was all over.

When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

Also, the mall was a "Gun Free Zone". Yeah, that seems to be the way to stop shooters. Fortunately Meli didn't realize this.

John Henry


The citizen carrier did NOTHING. He stropped NOTHING, he helped NOTHING. Whether or not he was there is completely irrelevant, because he did NOTHING.
wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3172
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby bdog » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:08 am

Maybe he did nothing, maybe he did something.

The dead gunman is the only one who knew for sure.
bdog
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3295
Joined: Wed Mar 31, 2010 5:26 am

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:12 am

Slick Willy wrote:
Gun-free zone or not, shooting two or three people in a mall only takes a matter of seconds


Quite right and that is precisely the point I was making. When seconds count, the police are minutes away. 10-15 minutes in this case. 20+ in the Sandy Hook case.

The main function of the police is to identify the victims after the attack.

That is not a criticism of the police, it is simply a statement of fact. In the very best of circumstances it is normally going to take 5 minutes or more to respond unless they are on the scene already.

and is almost impossible to stop,


Yet Meli stopped it before the gunman could kill more.

especially when using an assault weapon like he was.


Why would an assault weapon (rifle?) be any more deadly than any other semi-automatic rifle? Both will fire as fast as one can pull the trigger. Same as any semi-automatic pistol or even a revolver.

Even a non-semi-automatic gun will get off a large number of rounds in a short period of time. When the Marines used a single shot, bolt action, rifle (the Springfield '03, 5 round clip), the basic qualification for any Marine was 20 aimed shots in 60 seconds. I suspect the Army had a similar qualification.

Or if you really want to kill a lot of people, why not use a shotgun? How many rounds do you think a pump action shotgun will fire in a few seconds? Use a heavy buckshot and a wide pattern and you could kill multiple people with each shot without aiming.

Or forget guns altogether. Just carry a couple 2 liter pop bottles of gasoline into the mall and set them alight.

All the more reason to ban the general public from being able to buy assault weapons.


Again, I suspect that you mean assault rifles, here. If not, what do you mean by "assault weapons"? Knives? Baseball bats?

And if you do mean assault rifles, what good do you think banning them will do?

Do you even know the definition of an assault rifle?

John Henry
johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1348
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:16 am

wack wack wrote:The citizen carrier did NOTHING.


He pointed a gun at the shooter. That hardly seems like NOTHING to me.

He stropped NOTHING, he helped NOTHING. Whether or not he was there is completely irrelevant, because he did NOTHING.


As BDog points out, the only one who knows whether Meli pointing the gun caused the shooter to flee is the shooter and he is dead.

I suppose there is a chance the shooter would have fled and shot himself had Meli and his gun not been present.

Not the way I would bet, though.

John Henry
johnfajardohenry
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1348
Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:22 pm

PreviousNext

Return to National Politics & Government

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Francis Di Domizio, Huckleby, kurt_w, Polka_Tulk and 5 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR
Created with flickr badge.

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar