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Politics and the CT shooting

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Dec 24, 2012 11:21 am

Slick Willy wrote: All the more reason to ban the general public from being able to buy assault weapons.


BTW: The deadliest mass shooting in the US up to recently took place in 1991. 50 people shot, 23 fatally.

No assault weapon. 2 semi-automatic handguns.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luby%27s_massacre

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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby david cohen » Mon Dec 24, 2012 12:04 pm

That's why the majority of Americans want semi-automatics and automatics restricted.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Dec 24, 2012 1:07 pm

david cohen wrote:That's why the majority of Americans want semi-automatics and automatics restricted.

As well as weapons that hold over ten bullets and clips that hold large amounts of ammo. Unless one plans to shoot many people over a short period of time, they are not needed.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby Detritus » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:00 pm

I am in favor of limiting weapons to those that had been invented at the passage of the Second Amendment, since we have to hew to the Original Intent of the Framers (pbut).
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:32 pm

david cohen wrote:That's why the majority of Americans want semi-automatics and automatics restricted.


Ignorance on stilts.

Perhaps you ought to learn a bit about guns before you opine.

Do you even know what an automatic weapon is? Do you know that they have been effectively illegal to own under federal law since the 1930's? Absolutely illegal to own under many state laws as well.

Do you know what a semi-automatic weapon is? Do you know that most guns sold in the US for the past 100 or so years have been semi-automatics?

And if you are going to ban semi-automatics, why not revolvers and pump or lever action guns?

Perhaps if you knew something about guns you would not be so afraid of them.

As for this poll, do you have a link or are you just "Making shit up"tm?

John Henry

(Edited to change "stupidity" to "ignorance")
Last edited by johnfajardohenry on Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Dec 24, 2012 2:49 pm

Just to keep things in perspective:

US Murder rate 1980 10.2/100m population
US murder rate 2009 5.0/100m population (Most recent year given)

Looks like a pretty steep drop to me. Is this because of or in spite of guns being more common in our society? Because of or in spite of more and more states having concealed carry laws?

US violent crime rate 1980 507/100m
US violent crime rate 2009 429/100m

Table 306 Statistical Abstract
http://www.census.gov/prod/2011pubs/12statab/law.pdf

Lots of other interesting stats in that chapter on law enforcement and crime if you want to just noodle around a bit.

For those not familiar with the Abstract, it is a pretty fascinating book to just open up at random. As its name implies, it has statistical information on pretty much every aspect of American life going back, in some cases, to the what they call Colonial Times, before the US existed. Also a whole chapter of international comparisons that is pretty nifty.

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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby david cohen » Mon Dec 24, 2012 3:47 pm

of course I know the difference, cuz. perhaps you should stay on top of things. all of the polling in the past week has shown that 54% of the country wants semi autos and autos banned. auto are NOT illegal, you just need an ATF permit. semis are everywhere.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby johnfajardohenry » Mon Dec 24, 2012 4:59 pm

david cohen wrote:of course I know the difference, cuz. perhaps you should stay on top of things. all of the polling in the past week has shown that 54% of the country wants semi autos and autos banned. auto are NOT illegal, you just need an ATF permit. semis are everywhere.


Read what I said. "Effectively illegal" under federal law. Yes, you can get a license to own one. The license is not that easy to get. Then, once you have a license, you need to find someone with a pre-1986 machine gun to sell you. This gun has to have been previously registered with the ATF. Then you need to go through all kinds of hoops to keep the gun and even more to fire it.

And if you live in Wisconsin, you can't even do that since they are illegal under state law.

Perhaps you watch too many movies, play too many video games. Do you have any idea how few legal civilian automatic rifles/machine guns there are in the US? Nor are they used very often in crimes.

Not really something to worry much about.

You have a link to this poll you keep talking about?

No?

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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby Average Joe » Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:49 pm

The NRA is not doing itself any favors if their true agenda is guns for all. I'm glad I've lived long enough to see the day that the NRA has become irrelevant and inconsequential.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby Sandi » Mon Dec 24, 2012 8:23 pm

Average Joe wrote:The NRA is not doing itself any favors if their true agenda is guns for all. I'm glad I've lived long enough to see the day that the NRA has become irrelevant and inconsequential.


First there agenda is guns for those that want them, not guns for all. Second your "irrelevant and inconsequential" is a pipe dream. With every knee jerk reaction "we-need-more-guns-banned" they increase membership.

No I am not a member and have no desire to be one: however I am a gun owner.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby rabble » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:06 pm

I'm a gun owner too.

And I think Sandi's right, the NRA wants anyone who wants one to have a gun. Anybody. As many guns as they want.

And I think that agenda is going to cost them.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby Sandi » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:19 pm

rabble wrote:I'm a gun owner too.

And I think Sandi's right, the NRA wants anyone who wants one to have a gun. Anybody. As many guns as they want.

And I think that agenda is going to cost them.


Let me rephrase that. Anyone who wants one and is legally eligible to have one.
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby rabble » Mon Dec 24, 2012 9:40 pm

Sandi wrote:
rabble wrote:I'm a gun owner too.

And I think Sandi's right, the NRA wants anyone who wants one to have a gun. Anybody. As many guns as they want.

And I think that agenda is going to cost them.


Let me rephrase that. Anyone who wants one and is legally eligible to have one.

Merry Christmas, Sandi. But I think I'm the one who's closer to the mark.

The only part of "legally eligible" they care about is lip service while they give them loopholes like gun shows and mail order. If they were serious about "legally eligible" they'd at least admit there are many ways an illegible person can get a gun.

But, hell. In a few years we'll be able to print them. Won't that be fun?
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby pjbogart » Mon Dec 24, 2012 10:29 pm

rabble wrote:If they were serious about "legally eligible" they'd at least admit there are many ways an illegible person can get a gun.


Exactly. Here's an example of an illegible gun owner:

Image
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Re: Politics and the CT shooting

Postby rabble » Tue Dec 25, 2012 11:40 am

Damn you auto correct!

No wait. I mean Merry Christmas to all and to all, no snarks!
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