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The 47 Percent Videotape

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: The 47 Percent Videotape

Postby Leroy Gates » Thu Mar 14, 2013 11:44 pm

Penalizing the productive isn't the solution to poverty. Record numbers of students getting food assistance, record numbers of Americans on food stamps, record numbers of homeless, record number of long term unemployed, that's some plan you got there.
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Re: The 47 Percent Videotape

Postby kurt_w » Fri Mar 15, 2013 12:37 am

Leroy Gates wrote:Record numbers of students getting food assistance, record numbers of Americans on food stamps, record numbers of homeless, record number of long term unemployed, that's some plan you got there.


That's not a "plan", that's the situation that your party left the country in when it was running things. You know, the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression? A crisis that we'd be recovering from a heck of a lot faster if your party wasn't doing its damnedest to hamstring the government and render it totally ineffective.

But that's neither here nor there. Again, what's your priority? Making a moral statement about the awfulness of welfare, or getting kids through school?

Wishful thinking isn't a "plan". Saying "Well, it would be nice if nobody was poor and everybody had good jobs" isn't a "plan". Congratulating yourself on your moral superiority to the worthless poor folks who don't pull their own weight might make you feel good but it won't help Johnny make it through the day at school.

As for the suggestion that paying for subsidized lunch for poor kids is bankrupting the country, give me a break. The total cost of the program was something like $11B last year. That's about 0.6% of what we've spent on the Iraq war over the past decade. We can spend trillions on that stupid war, but we can't ensure that poor and working class children get lunch at school?
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Re: The 47 Percent Videotape

Postby Galoot » Fri Mar 15, 2013 6:24 am

So Leroy, why is it that you and your right-wing buddies prefer that the parent that works is the Papa? If Papa wants to stay home and Mama prefers to work, what is wrong with that?
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Re: The 47 Percent Videotape

Postby pjbogart » Fri Mar 15, 2013 8:29 am

What we have here is a failure to communicate. What Leroy is trying to say is that poverty is at a record and Obama is President, therefore Obama caused more poverty. You have to watch a lot of FoxNews and listen to Rush Limbaugh to understand this phenomenon, but essentially it works something like this: all problems that existed during the Bush years were the fault of Clinton and all problems that exist during the Obama years are the fault of Obama. It's about taking responsibility (on selective occasions) rather than passing the buck.
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Re: The 47 Percent Videotape

Postby Stella_Guru » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:37 am

pjbogart wrote: You have to watch a lot of FoxNews and listen to Rush Limbaugh to understand this phenomenon, but essentially it works something like this: all problems that existed during the Bush years were the fault of Clinton and all problems that exist during the Obama years are the fault of Obama. It's about taking responsibility (on selective occasions) rather than passing the buck.

The same old song and dance has existed forever. Whichever gang is running the U.S.A. government we still have the Constitution ignored, laws being broken,
treaties violated, the lining of pockets from the public treasury, arranged assassinations, undeclared and illegal wars, suppression of socialism, double-dealers, liars, and empire builders pushing us into bankruptcy. The very old right/left paradigm is a ruse, a divisionary tactic meant to divide us all. And no, I don't click my heals when I say this.
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Re: The 47 Percent Videotape

Postby DCB » Sun Mar 17, 2013 8:42 pm

Galoot wrote:So Leroy, why is it that you and your right-wing buddies prefer that the parent that works is the Papa? If Papa wants to stay home and Mama prefers to work, what is wrong with that?

He's saying that they're all too lazy to work, and why should they? the kid gets a free meal at school, and Obama gave them all cell phones.

If we stop the free food, maybe they'll get off their lazy butts and go to work. If not, too bad.

Besides, we can't be throwing money at these moochers. We need more of these.
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Re: The 47 Percent Videotape

Postby Leroy Gates » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:12 am

I haven't disparaged the poor, that seems be your job. I've been criticizing the inept people in charge of the economy who seem to be good only at producing more poor people. I realize none of this is Obama's fault, after all he is only the President of the United States and has only had four fricking years.

From Sunday's Washington Post
"Food stamps put Rhode Island town on monthly boom-and-bust cycle

"For the past three years, the Ortizes’ lives had unfolded in a series of exhausting, fractional decisions. Was it better to eat the string cheese now or to save it? To buy milk for $3.80 nearby or for $3.10 across town? Was it better to pay down the $600 they owed the landlord, or the $110 they owed for their cellphones, or the $75 they owed the tattoo parlor, or the $840 they owed the electric company?"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/food-stamps-put-rhode-island-town-on-monthly-boom-and-bust-cycle/2013/03/16/08ace07c-8ce1-11e2-b63f-f53fb9f2fcb4_story_2.html
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Re: The 47 Percent Videotape

Postby DCB » Mon Mar 18, 2013 12:08 pm

Leroy Gates wrote:I haven't disparaged the poor, that seems be your job. I've been criticizing the inept people in charge of the economy who seem to be good only at producing more poor people. I realize none of this is Obama's fault, after all he is only the President of the United States and has only had four fricking years.

Oh, my mistake. I assumed you were on board with the whole Romney/Ryan, makers vs. takers, "The 47% are just moochers" thing.

Now that I go back, I don't think you've really said anything. Maybe you're saying that the large numbers of people using food stamps, etc is a sign of a bad economy.On that point, I couldn't agree more. Did you have a larger point?

Where is your criticism of the "inept people in charge"?

I think its fair to give some of the blame to the President: the stimulus wasn't big enough, and he keeps pushing 'deficit reduction' at a time when we need more money injected into the economy.

Obviously the opposition party deserves much of the blame - all they seem to care about is cutting taxes for billionaires. But the President seems more than willing to compromise with these sociopaths.

On the other hand, we are facing the worst economic disaster since the Great Depression. And then there is this:
Dean Baker wrote:The upward redistribution of the last three decades was the result of deliberate government policies designed to redistribute income upward; it was not the natural workings of the market.

http://www.cepr.net/index.php/blogs/bea ... d-morality
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Re: The 47 Percent Videotape

Postby Leroy Gates » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:41 pm

Obama added 6 trillion dollars to the debt in 4 years. On what planet is that "pushing for deficit reduction"?
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Re: The 47 Percent Videotape

Postby fennel » Mon Mar 18, 2013 2:58 pm

The Congressional Budget Office reported Obama cut the federal deficit by $200 billion.
The federal government’s fiscal year 2012 has come to a close, and CBO estimates, in the Monthly Budget Review, that the federal budget deficit for the year was about $1.1 trillion, approximately $200 billion lower than the shortfall recorded in 2011. The 2012 deficit was equal to 7.0 percent of gross domestic product, CBO estimates, down from 8.7 percent in 2011, 9.0 percent in 2010, and 10.1 percent in 2009, but greater than in any other year since 1947. CBO’s deficit estimate is based on data from the Daily Treasury Statements; the Treasury Department will report the actual deficit for fiscal year 2012 later this month.
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Re: The 47 Percent Videotape

Postby rabble » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:03 pm

Leroy Gates wrote:Obama added 6 trillion dollars to the debt in 4 years. On what planet is that "pushing for deficit reduction"?

Link please.
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Re: The 47 Percent Videotape

Postby fennel » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:08 pm

The CBO, more recently: The Budget and Economic Outlook: Fiscal Years 2013 to 2023

If the current laws that govern federal taxes and spending do not change, the budget deficit will shrink this year to $845 billion, or 5.3 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), its smallest size since 2008. In CBO’s baseline projections, deficits continue to shrink over the next few years, falling to 2.4 percent of GDP by 2015.
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Re: The 47 Percent Videotape

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Mar 18, 2013 3:37 pm

fennel wrote:The CBO, more recently: The Budget and Economic Outlook: Fiscal Years 2013 to 2023


That's not a link to Glenn Beck so it doesn't count.
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Re: The 47 Percent Videotape

Postby Leroy Gates » Mon Mar 18, 2013 4:41 pm

01/20/2009 $10,626,877,048,913.08
01/18/2013 $16,432,619,424,703.06
03/15/2013 $16,731,693,041,858.12
http://www.treasurydirect.gov/NP/BPDLogin?application=np
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Re: The 47 Percent Videotape

Postby DCB » Wed Mar 20, 2013 4:55 pm

fennel wrote:The CBO, more recently: The Budget and Economic Outlook: Fiscal Years 2013 to 2023

If the current laws that govern federal taxes and spending do not change, the budget deficit will shrink this year to $845 billion, or 5.3 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), its smallest size since 2008. In CBO’s baseline projections, deficits continue to shrink over the next few years, falling to 2.4 percent of GDP by 2015.

That's the yearly deficit, which gets added to the total debt. So, the total debt will continue to grow, just more slowly than it used to.

The debt did grow a lot the last few years. Is it because Obama was giving away phones and food stamps to all the poor people? No, I don't think so.

I think it was because of the Bush recession, on top of Bush's two wars. You could argue that Obama could have turned things around faster, but that's a bit of a stretch.

Paul Ryan thinks the debt is the greatest threat to Mankind ever, and he proposes to fix it by really sticking it to the poor, the elderly and all the other moochers.

The House Progressive Caucus has a different idea. Here is a handy comparison:
Matthew Yglesias wrote:Long story short, I would say the CPC budget has the following main advantages over the Ryan budget:

* More food and medical care for poor children.
* Less air pollution and a meaningful chance to avert the worst consequences of climate change.
* Lower taxes on middle-class and working-poor families.
* Medicare reform focused on reducing the unit price of health care services rather than increasing it.
* More funding for transportation infrastructure and basic research.

Brooks says the Ryan budget has the following main advantages over the CPC budget:

* High-income individuals will be less inclined to take vacations or retire and more inclined to work long hours.

In a world where trade-offs are, to an extent, unavoidable, I don't see that as an enormously difficult choice.

http://www.slate.com/blogs/moneybox/201 ... erals.html
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