MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus:         Newsletters 
Saturday, December 20, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 27.0° F  Overcast
Collapse Photo Bar

Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Postby other i » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:09 am

Not sure which is more morally reprehensible; holding a bigoted opinion because of limited upbringing and lack of exposure or holding/changing an opinion (and maybe not really HAVING one) because one is or isn't running for this or that office.

Which has the potential, in the long run, to inflict more damage?
other i
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 180
Joined: Tue Jan 05, 2010 2:15 pm

Re: Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Postby Meade » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:10 am

wack wack wrote:Please list the legal rights not afforded by "civil unions."

Please list the legal rights not afforded by "colored" restrooms and drinking fountains.
Meade
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3341
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:26 pm

Re: Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:13 am

Does that mean you are upset with the political party that pushed through Wisconsin's anti-gay constitutional amendment?
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20269
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Re: Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Postby wack wack » Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:20 am

Meade wrote:
wack wack wrote:Please list the legal rights not afforded by "civil unions."

Please list the legal rights not afforded by "colored" restrooms and drinking fountains.


Yeah, I'd answer every question with a question too, if I were you. "I know you are but what am I" is probably pretty effective with your third grade classmates, though.
wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3192
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Re: Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:01 am

wack wack wrote:I read the entire entry and learned that Wallace was an even bigger bastard than I previously believed. Was that your intent?
To demonstrate that his exceptionally racist politics were adopted as a political necessity and not the result of exceptional personal bigotry, paralleling the stated policy positions of Hillary Clinton on gay marriage.
ArturoBandini
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: near west

Re: Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Postby wack wack » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:03 am

ArturoBandini wrote:
wack wack wrote:I read the entire entry and learned that Wallace was an even bigger bastard than I previously believed. Was that your intent?
To demonstrate that his exceptionally racist politics were adopted as a political necessity and not the result of exceptional personal bigotry, paralleling the stated policy positions of Hillary Clinton on gay marriage.


But they weren't, and they don't.
wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3192
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Re: Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:05 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Does that mean you are upset with the political party that pushed through Wisconsin's anti-gay constitutional amendment?
I am.
ArturoBandini
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: near west

Re: Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Postby Ducatista » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:06 am

"Hillary = Rob Portman" is typical disingenuous conservative assfluvium.

Conservatives happily pounced on gay marriage as a wedge issue. I wish more Democrats had said "fuck you, conservadouches" and voted to suit their ideology rather than the political climate. If they had, would we be at 58% support for gay marriage now? Or 38%? Or 78%? I don't know. But I'm glad the tide has (finally) turned.

A story from All Things Considered last night, FDR and the Jews, has interesting parallels to this discussion. An excerpt:

All Things Considered wrote:FDR's father raised him to not be anti-Semitic at a time when anti-Semitism was common to their class. During his presidency, however, Roosevelt feared that expressions of his concern for the Jews of Europe would inflame anti-Semitism in the U.S. According to Lichtman, that fear affected how FDR and other leaders of the era dealt with the Jewish question.

"The 1930s and '40s were a time in America when there was a considerable amount of anti-Jewish, anti-black and even anti-Catholic sentiment and people were worried about upsetting the social order in America," Lichtman says. "But, let me say, this is the poison of anti-Semitism; that the fear of anti-Semitism is often greater than the reality of anti-Semitism. And it was more fear that tended to paralyze key players in the '30s and '40s than necessarily the reality of anti-Semitism."

“[T]his is the poison of anti-Semitism; that the fear of anti-Semitism is often greater than the reality of anti-Semitism. And it was more fear that tended to paralyze key players in the '30s and '40s than necessarily the reality of anti-Semitism."

- Allan Lichtman

But it wasn't just FDR who was afraid. American Jews were also nervous about rocking the boat and bringing a wave of anti-Semitism upon themselves. According to Breitman, "The American Jewish community was divided both over how much they could accomplish politically and how they should go about it."
Ducatista
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 4355
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:31 pm
Location: 53703

Re: Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:07 am

Marvell wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Then there is Michelle Shocked.

This is a real head-scratcher. I'm shocked.

Oh, great.

I'm signed up to work the door for her show at the Harmony in early May. I predict apocalyptic levels of cognitive dissonance.

I predict the show will be cancelled. That, or poorly attended and vocally protested.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20269
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Re: Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:10 am

wack wack wrote:But they weren't, and they don't.
What's your evidence? I have already linked to information explaining that at least some of Wallace's race politics were based on pandering to a racist or race-paranoid electorate, thereby demonstrating my point. If you think I am wrong, please support your case. A flat denial isn't very convincing.
ArturoBandini
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: near west

Re: Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Postby wack wack » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:25 am

ArturoBandini wrote:
wack wack wrote:But they weren't, and they don't.
What's your evidence? I have already linked to information explaining that at least some of Wallace's race politics were based on pandering to a racist or race-paranoid electorate, thereby demonstrating my point. If you think I am wrong, please support your case. A flat denial isn't very convincing.


In an effort to show me that Wallace was just being politically convenient, you sent me to a link which indicates to me that Wallace was a hateful racist to the core. You didn't make your case. I can't refute that which wasn't established.

Which parts suggest he was just pandering?
wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3192
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Re: Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Postby Ducatista » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:27 am

Henry Vilas wrote:Then there is Michelle Shocked.

This is a real head-scratcher. I'm shocked.

She's "born again," apparently. Thanks for nothing, god.

On a somewhat related, but much more awesome, note: A guy is painting his house, which sits across the street from Westboro Baptist, to match the gay pride flag. Equality House story here.
Ducatista
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 4355
Joined: Fri Mar 05, 2004 12:31 pm
Location: 53703

Re: Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:35 am

wack wack wrote:In an effort to show me that Wallace was just being politically convenient, you sent me to a link which indicates to me that Wallace was a hateful racist to the core. You didn't make your case. I can't refute that which wasn't established.

Which parts suggest he was just pandering?
Fucking reading comprehension, how does it work?
From my link.
In 1958, Wallace was defeated by John Malcolm Patterson in Alabama's Democratic gubernatorial primary election. At the time the primary was the decisive election; the general election was then a mere formality. This was a political crossroads for Wallace. Patterson ran with the support of the Ku Klux Klan, an organization Wallace had spoken against, while Wallace was endorsed by the NAACP. After the election, aide Seymore Trammell recalled Wallace saying, "Seymore, you know why I lost that governor's race?... I was outniggered by John Patterson. And I'll tell you here and now, I will never be outniggered again."

In the wake of his defeat, Wallace "made a Faustian bargain," said Emory University professor Dan Carter. "In order to survive and get ahead politically in the 1960s, he sold his soul to the devil on race." He adopted a hard-line segregationist stance and used this stand to court the white vote in the next gubernatorial election in 1962. When a supporter asked why he started using racist messages, Wallace replied, "You know, I tried to talk about good roads and good schools and all these things that have been part of my career, and nobody listened. And then I began talking about niggers, and they stomped the floor."
And for what it's worth, I didn't say it was "just pandering". Political convenience explains part of Wallace's racist policies, but probably not all.
ArturoBandini
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: near west

Re: Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:41 am

ArturoBandini wrote: Political convenience explains part of Wallace's racist policies, but probably not all.

Daughter of Gov. George Wallace Rejects His Bigotry
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20269
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Re: Well Now That MY Son Is Gay...

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Mar 19, 2013 11:43 am

wack wack wrote:Please list the legal rights not afforded by "civil unions." Then explain how the concept of a legal "marriage" is something more than a civil union dressed in the language of religion.
Here's GLAD on this matter.

Without question, civil unions are better than zero rights or recognition for gay couples, but civil unions are not equivalent to marriage in either legal or symbolic terms.
ArturoBandini
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2256
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: near west

PreviousNext

Return to National Politics & Government

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR
Created with flickr badge.

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar