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Guest Workers

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: Guest Workers

Postby Henry Vilas » Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:51 pm

Irony alert!
Bludgeon wrote:No wonder you're still a seething, mouth-foaming liberal: you're a fucking idiot.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Stebben84 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:21 pm

Bludgeon wrote:and may or may not have had any degree of segregation.


So the kids are lying I guess:

The teens, Stephanie Sinnot and Keela Bloodworth, who are white, and Mareshia Rucker and Quanesha Wallace, who are black, said they have been friends since the fourth grade and want go to prom together, a quintessential end-of-senior-year event.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nationa ... z2PjD0ZauN


Sorry, this is a thread jack, but the fact that racism is somehow dead and legislators aren't racist against Immigrants is asinine.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Bludgeon » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:30 pm

Stebben84 wrote: So the kids are lying I guess.

Characterize it how you want but if this year Wilcox County hosts its "first integrated prom," Monsieur Janitor, it will be because Wilcox County (population 9k) will be hosting it's first prom. See how that works?
Stebben84 wrote:Sorry, this is a thread jack, but the fact that racism is somehow dead and legislators aren't racist against Immigrants is asinine.

Says the guy who jacked the thread with the asinine.. story. Best way to fix it: next post, eyes on the ball. More effective. Better.
Last edited by Bludgeon on Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Sat Apr 06, 2013 6:35 pm

It's funny, Madison West High instituted a separate black prom 10 or 15 years ago. Maybe it still exists. The argument was made that this constituted tolerance, allowing space for distinctive music and tastes.

Trying to please everyone is an unending nightmare.

I suspect the issue of a "segregated prom" is Georgia is very different up close than the news media is breathlessly reporting. I could be wrong, but I wonder.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Stebben84 » Sat Apr 06, 2013 7:29 pm

Bludgeon wrote:it will be because Wilcox County (population 9k) will be hosting it's first prom. See how that works?


So it's different when a school sanctions a segregated prom and when the public does? And what does the population matter? Does a small town get a pass on racism?

Bludgeon wrote:Says the guy who jacked the thread with the asinine.. story. Best way to fix it: next post, eyes on the ball. More effective. Better.


You may want to move this to the drunk post section.

By the way:

Republicans are continuing their minority outreach efforts this month by introducing a bill outlawing Spanish and other non-English languages from being used in federal documents.


http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2013/0 ... ?mobile=nc

Conservative inclusion at it's finest. Really, I'm not racist, I just don't want Mexicans here speaking their silly gibberish.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby DCB » Sun Apr 07, 2013 10:58 am

Bludgeon wrote:1. Institutionalized racism is systemic in the United States.
2. It's the main cause of all our societal woes.
3. It's getting worse.

I don't know if its systemic. But there certainly is plenty of racism.
I know this because noted neurosurgeon and Fox's chief Black correspondant Ben Carson says so:
Well, they're [white liberals] the most racist people there are. Because you know, they put you in a little category, a little box, 'you have to think this way, how could you dare come off the plantation?'"


LIke other white liberals, I had a knee-jerk reaction when Carson compared gay marriage to bestiality.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Meade » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:32 pm

DCB wrote:LIke other white liberals, I had a knee-jerk reaction when Carson compared gay marriage to bestiality.

What sort of knee-jerk reaction? Positive or negative?
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby The One » Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:36 pm

Huckleby wrote:Sure. But one thing is now abundantly clear: the people who are against illegal immigration are against immigration, period.

The people who oppose illegal immigration are working just as passionately to limit legal immigration. The "I just want them to follow the law" argument was and always will be phony.

Really? I am against illegal immigration, yet it took me over 2 years and over $1000 to immigrate my wife into the U.S. Shortly after, I assisted on immigrating my sister-in-law into the U.S. My wife and son are dual citizens, as will the child my wife is pregnant with.

I fail to see how your statement is "abundantly clear". Making a general statement like that is like me saying those who support illegal immigration are for open borders. I know that is not true, so don't make stupid statements that throw everybody into one group.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:13 pm

The One wrote: Really? I am against illegal immigration, yet it took me over 2 years and over $1000 to immigrate my wife into the U.S. Shortly after, I assisted on immigrating my sister-in-law into the U.S. My wife and son are dual citizens, as will the child my wife is pregnant with.


What is the relevance of your personal story? It says zero about your attitude towards the 12M undocumented people in this country. It says zero about your view of a guest worker program, or how future immigration should be controlled. I don't care if your wife AND your mistress are immigrants - means nothing.

Nearly everyone in this debate is against illegal immigration. Everybody would like to have a controlled, legal situation that fits their own idea of what the immigration flow should look like. The controversy is over how welcoming people are to new immigrants.

You're correct that generalizations can always be criticized for ignoring the exceptions. Next.

Look, the point is that the people who claim to be against legal immigration because of "respect for the law" are full of shit, in the main. It's clear from the debate that they also are unhappy about accepting the people who are already living here as citizens. And they want to keep it difficult for new foreign laborers to obtain citizenship.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Bludgeon » Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:54 pm

DCB wrote:
Bludgeon wrote:1. Institutionalized racism is [not] systemic in the United States.
2. It's [not] the main cause of all our societal woes.
3. It's [not] getting worse.

I don't know if its systemic. But there certainly is plenty of racism.
I know this because noted neurosurgeon and Fox's chief Black correspondant Ben Carson says so:
Well, they're [white liberals] the most racist people there are. Because you know, they put you in a little category, a little box, 'you have to think this way, how could you dare come off the plantation?'"

Like other white liberals, I had a knee-jerk reaction when Carson compared gay marriage to bestiality.

What if... None of what you're upset about is really that important? What if it's immaterial next to the wide-scale human tragedy of this regressed (and still regressing) economy? What if the striking loss of life-quality that tens and tens of millions have experienced in the last decade is just as tragic and just as valid as the perceived offense of politically incorrect words used to describe things? What if a hard working family that falls from the middle class into poverty after decades of hard work and doing everything right, is just as much of a catastrophe as the Mexican immigrant who doesn't get to be a citizen? What if these things are important too, but your obsession with the one distorts your perspective of the other? How then can this sort of modern progressive be an advocate for the principles of humanism?

Anyone looking around for signs of the futility of the race-centric prescriptions of the progressive ideology need never look far.

If society is the Titanic, and you can choose to either hit the iceberg (endanger the whole ship) or have the crew of that ship made up of the exact, perfect ratio of ethnic and sexual diversity, the progressive's priority is to make sure we all drown with just the right number of women and minorities in management positions as the breached hull overfills the ship with arctic sea water and drags us down into the briny depths.

You (the royal you) can't solve a catastrophe when your society is so inordinately preoccupied with this perverse fixation on skin color et al, that it's amplifying, doubling, magnifying dischordantly, the whisper of the merest slight, into this riotous worldwide clamor that drowns out all reason.

If proponents of the progressive ideology are so bright (and they would have you believe that they are), they would do well to start letting go of this increasingly childish obsession with language: it makes you look ridiculous when the thrust of your argument constantly boils down to pointing your finger and asserting, "he said a bad thing."

I come here to talk politics and hear why people believe what they do; I may never be persuaded by your ideology, but I will always be interested in knowing what makes you believe it. I say this because I don't consider this immigration topic (or any other) to be a battle over territory that is to be "won or lost"; there are serious issues facing all of us; the challenge is to look beyond the prescriptions of archaic political schools, and start recognizing what's in front of our own eyes. I don't expect we'll accomplish anything material in an online message board, but there's value in discourse, and I'm optimistic that we can at least be honest with ourselves.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby kurt_w » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:38 pm

Bludgeon wrote:I come here to talk politics and hear why people believe what they do [...] I don't expect we'll accomplish anything material in an online message board, but there's value in discourse, and I'm optimistic that we can at least be honest with ourselves.

Very pretty words, yet somehow hard to take seriously in the same thread where you were clowning around like this:

Bludgeon wrote:[...] sing kum ba yah about how we all need to "move past" these grievances because the planet has been ideologically healed by this Hannibal Lecter of a messiah the Democrats like to call president. Dude's not here to help; dude's here for revenge.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:46 pm

Bludgeon wrote: What if a hard working family that falls from the middle class into poverty after decades of hard work and doing everything right, is just as much of a catastrophe as the Mexican immigrant who doesn't get to be a citizen? What if these things are important too, but your obsession with the one distorts your perspective of the other?


Are you suggesting that 12M immigrants in a country of 350M are to blame for the loss of middle class jobs? How man of those 12M do you figure have well paying jobs? Back-of-the-envelope guesstimate, perhaps one in 200 middle class jobs are held by undocumented people. Could be far less.
Last edited by Huckleby on Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Bludgeon » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:48 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Bludgeon wrote: What if a hard working family that falls from the middle class into poverty after decades of hard work and doing everything right, is just as much of a catastrophe as the Mexican immigrant who doesn't get to be a citizen? What if these things are important too, but your obsession with the one distorts your perspective of the other?


Are you suggesting that 12M immigrants in a country of 350M are to blame for the loss of middle class jobs? How man of those 12M do you figure have well paying jobs?

If you re-read and consider, you should quickly realize that's not what I'm suggesting.
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Huckleby » Sun Apr 07, 2013 2:50 pm

Bludgeon wrote: If you re-read and consider, you should quickly realize that's not what I'm suggesting.


OK. Why did you choose to juxtapose the two issues? What are you suggesting? (please be brief and direct, my attention span is wavering today.)
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Re: Guest Workers

Postby Bludgeon » Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:03 pm

Huckleby wrote:
Bludgeon wrote: If you re-read and consider, you should quickly realize that's not what I'm suggesting.


OK. Why did you choose to juxtapose the two issues? What are you suggesting? (please be brief and direct, my attention span is wavering today.)

To make a comparison - to stress the outsized importance that modern progressives put on difference-markers like race and sex; that they view what they see as wrongs to what we call a minority as having a disproportionate level of import -- not to say 'one is to blame for the other', but, here are these dual tragedies, perhaps equally valid; but only one of these amounts to a priority for progressives. In that context you should see very clearly I'm not talking about blame at all.
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