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Where are they now: Jeremi Suri edition.

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Where are they now: Jeremi Suri edition.

Postby SlayerDave » Sat Apr 13, 2013 7:21 pm

So, I don't know if anyone remembers the name, but he was a professor here at UW until 2 years ago.

Profiled in Isthmus a few times, pretty highly regarded around campus:
http://www.thedailypage.com/daily/artic ... icle=27349

Anyways, there was some controversy over his decision to leave, he blamed political attacks:
http://thinkprogress.org/education/2011 ... of-walker/ (Not super relevant here, just how you may remember his name).

So then I was reading this crazy NYT editorial today, entitled Bomb North Korea, Before It's Too Late and I got to the end and saw the author.

I never had the chance to take one of his classes, but I certainly didn't get the impression from speaking to others that he was some super-hawk. Weird.
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Re: Where are they now: Jeremi Suri edition.

Postby Meade » Sat Apr 13, 2013 9:47 pm

Our nation enters this conflict reluctantly -- yet, our purpose is sure. The people of the United States and our friends and allies will not live at the mercy of an outlaw regime that threatens the peace with weapons of mass murder. We will meet that threat now, with our Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and Marines, so that we do not have to meet it later with armies of fire fighters and police and doctors on the streets of our cities.

Now that conflict has come, the only way to limit its duration is to apply decisive force. And I assure you, this will not be a campaign of half measures, and we will accept no outcome but victory.
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Re: Where are they now: Jeremi Suri edition.

Postby other i » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:09 pm

So, Mr. Question Man, what do YOU think? Should we bomb the missile(s) on the launch pad(s)?
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Re: Where are they now: Jeremi Suri edition.

Postby Detritus » Sat Apr 13, 2013 10:23 pm

I can't say that I know Jeremy well, but I do know him both as a person and a scholar. I don't think he thinks of himself as a hawk--he considers himself politically liberal but a realist. His two most recent books, the hagiography of Kissinger and the newer one on nation building, are both exercises in Realpolitik.

I have to say that there were more than a few of his colleagues in both History and Political Science who were not sorry to see him go, and found his talk about the UW under attack more than a little strange, seeing as he went to a school (UT-Austin) truly under attack by a hostile legislature and governor. By comparison, the UW's critics/enemies are piffling trifles.

Jeremy has a way of becoming the expert in the room on any topic that comes up, whether he has just heard of it that moment or not, and if you think that is endearing behavior in academia, then you've never been in academia. He suddenly became an expert on North Korea about three years ago, and his basic position could be summed up as "the U.S. is a Great Power and therefore, like it or not, North Korea has to do what we say." He says it apologetically, just as he does in the NYTimes piece SlayerDave brought up--kind of "Hey, look, I don't want to bomb the bejesus out of you, but you're forcing me to" attitude. I guess that marks the difference between a liberal "realist" and a conservative "realist." Not that their policies are different, but the former is apologetic for screwing you over, whereas the latter is proud of it. But the end result is the same.
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Re: Where are they now: Jeremi Suri edition.

Postby Meade » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:31 am

other i wrote:So, Mr. Question Man, what do YOU think? Should we bomb the missile(s) on the launch pad(s)?

I think China should unapologetically bomb the missles on the NK launch pads.

Detritus wrote:I guess that marks the difference between a liberal "realist" and a conservative "realist." Not that their policies are different, but the former is apologetic for screwing you over, whereas the latter is proud of it. But the end result is the same.

Thanks for that insight. By your definition, LBJ was a "'liberal realist'" and Reagan was a "conservative "'realist'". Of the two, whose approach left more people dead? And whose approach led to more people's freedom from tyranny?
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Re: Where are they now: Jeremi Suri edition.

Postby Meade » Sun Apr 14, 2013 11:55 am

Suri might be a "Relative Pacifist":

Bertrand Russell was an outspoken pacifist. He opposed England's participation in World War I and as a result was first fined, then lost his professorship at Trinity College of Cambridge University and later imprisoned for six months. In the years leading to World War II, he supported the policy of appeasement, but later acknowledged that Hitler had to be defeated.

Russell called his stance "Relative Pacifism"—he held that war was always a great evil, but in some particularly extreme circumstances (such as when Hitler threatened to take over Europe) it might be a lesser of multiple evils.

On November 20, 1948, in a public speech at Westminster School, addressing a gathering arranged by the New Commonwealth, Russell shocked some of his less careful listeners by seeming to advocate a preemptive nuclear strike on the Soviet Union. Russell argued that war between the United States and the Soviet Union seemed inevitable, so it would be a humanitarian gesture to get it over with quickly. Currently, Russell argued, humanity could survive such a war, whereas a full nuclear war after both sides had manufactured large stockpiles of more destructive weapons was likely to result in the extinction of the human race. Russell later relented from this stance, instead arguing for mutual disarmament by the nuclear powers.
http://www.biographybase.com/biography/ ... trand.html
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Re: Where are they now: Jeremi Suri edition.

Postby Detritus » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:38 pm

Meade wrote:Thanks for that insight. By your definition, LBJ was a "'liberal realist'" and Reagan was a "conservative "'realist'". Of the two, whose approach left more people dead? And whose approach led to more people's freedom from tyranny?

What an insightful question! Let's go further, and ask the people they killed whether they preferred dying at the hands of liberal "realist" policymakers or conservative "realist" policy makers.
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Re: Where are they now: Jeremi Suri edition.

Postby jjoyce » Sun Apr 14, 2013 1:55 pm

Suri is a thinker and I believe the reason so many people hold him in high regard is because he shares his thoughts honestly, intelligently and with a high level of respect for his audience.

He's missed around here.
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Re: Where are they now: Jeremi Suri edition.

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Apr 14, 2013 2:59 pm

While Suri didn't arrive at UW until after I got my degrees, I did hear him speak to a group of social studies teachers about 8 years ago. His presentation was on Harry Truman (I think he had a book coming out). Maybe his research on Give 'em Hell Harry got him thinking about North Korea.
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Re: Where are they now: Jeremi Suri edition.

Postby Donald » Sun Apr 14, 2013 8:52 pm

Suri's ranting here is as nuts as KJU's.

NoKo is about as isolated diplomatically as it can ever get. Not even China can stand the NoKo regime, and is only propping it up so that the inevitable refugee problem doesn't spill over into northern China. Take that away and China would be happy to pull the plug on the NoKo regime.

Doing something so provocative as firing a missile into NoKo would allow NoKo to get world opinion on its side, and put the US in the cuckoo box. Dumbest idea EVER!

But the piece is even worse than dumb and nuts. Suri just handed NoKo a justification for its craziness. The fact that Suri is a frustrated and ignored dipshit professor of bloviating nonsense and has no power or post will not translate to the NoKo propaganda machine. He will be propped up by NoKo as some expert with portfolio to start a war of aggression.
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Re: Where are they now: Jeremi Suri edition.

Postby other i » Mon Apr 15, 2013 6:28 am

Meade, you didn't answer my question. In fact, you attempted to end run it as if you were afraid to answer. Do you have a problem with the U.S. taking out the missile on the pad?
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Re: Where are they now: Jeremi Suri edition.

Postby Meade » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:09 am

No. But I do think Obama should first get authorization from Congress to use military force.
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Re: Where are they now: Jeremi Suri edition.

Postby Detritus » Mon Apr 15, 2013 8:14 am

One of Suri's former colleagues, Kris Olds, weighs in here. There is a brief exchange with Suri that epitomizes one of the problems with intelligent people who don't recognize the limits of their own expertise. Or, as my father likes to say, "There no one quite so obtuse as an expert outside their own field."
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Re: Where are they now: Jeremi Suri edition.

Postby jjoyce » Mon Apr 15, 2013 10:16 am

Looks like Prof. Suri will be on WPR at 4 today:

https://twitter.com/JeremiSuri/status/3 ... 8269844480
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