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97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Sandi » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:45 pm

jonnygothisen wrote:The problem is still the fact that CO2 retains heat radiated from the Earth, and that the subsequent warming has melted ice over methane in swamps and the Arctic. And since methane retains 10 times more heat than CO2, you're now witnessing the beginning of an acceleration of global warming.


Except that there is no accelerating of global warming. In fact the global climate has cooled now for 17 plus years.

You have to study the science, not the press releases.
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby jonnygothispen » Wed Jun 25, 2014 7:50 pm

That explains why the Arctic has lost 1/3rd of it's annual ice coverage in the last 30 years, and the Antarctic has lost even more ice due to warmer oceanic water despite cooler surface temperatures down there. Water cools and warms far more slowly than air, so it is a far better indicator of what is actually happening. And since oceans cover 70% of Earth...

The Arctic has the highest concentrations of CO2 on Earth, and is also warming at the fastest rate, while the Antarctic has the lowest CO2 levels, and is cooler than normal. Since CO2 retains heat, does that make sense to you?

Follow your own advice, maybe?
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Sandi » Wed Jun 25, 2014 9:07 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:That explains why the Arctic has lost 1/3rd of it's annual ice coverage in the last 30 years, and the Antarctic has lost even more ice due to warmer oceanic water despite cooler surface temperatures down there. Water cools and warms far more slowly than air, so it is a far better indicator of what is actually happening. And since oceans cover 70% of Earth...

The Arctic has the highest concentrations of CO2 on Earth, and is also warming at the fastest rate, while the Antarctic has the lowest CO2 levels, and is cooler than normal. Since CO2 retains heat, does that make sense to you?

Follow your own advice, maybe?


Doesn't make much sense no.

The Antarctic ice is growing, no shrinking. The Arctic ice fluctuates as it has historically.

Your a good person to debate with, but please google up some historic ice charts. The science isn't what you see in press releases.
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Stebben84 » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:07 am

Sandi wrote:You have to study the science


Says the person who doesn't know why Venus is so hot.
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jun 26, 2014 9:17 am

Sandi wrote:You have to study the science


Says the high school dropout.
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby jonnygothispen » Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:53 pm

Sandi wrote:
jonnygothispen wrote:That explains why the Arctic has lost 1/3rd of it's annual ice coverage in the last 30 years, and the Antarctic has lost even more ice due to warmer oceanic water despite cooler surface temperatures down there. Water cools and warms far more slowly than air, so it is a far better indicator of what is actually happening. And since oceans cover 70% of Earth...

The Arctic has the highest concentrations of CO2 on Earth, and is also warming at the fastest rate, while the Antarctic has the lowest CO2 levels, and is cooler than normal. Since CO2 retains heat, does that make sense to you?

Follow your own advice, maybe?


Doesn't make much sense no.

The Antarctic ice is growing, no shrinking. The Arctic ice fluctuates as it has historically.

Your a good person to debate with, but please google up some historic ice charts. The science isn't what you see in press releases.
The charts show that the annual ice coverage previously took thousands of years to change as much as it has in the last 30 years. It's interesting that you only trust scientific consensus when it says what you want it too.
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Sandi » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:17 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:The charts show that the annual ice coverage previously took thousands of years to change as much as it has in the last 30 years. It's interesting that you only trust scientific consensus when it says what you want it too.


What charts?

Perhaps you could point some of this change in the last 30 years out, on the chart from the NSIDC ( National Snow and Ice Data Center). It shows global, antarctic, and arctic and covers more than 30 years.

Image
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby jonnygothispen » Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:28 pm

Yes, the Antarctic has more surface ice due to cooler air temperatures than normal. Yet it's lost more ice than the Arctic due to warmer ocean water. Your charts shows the loss of surface area ice only. Sometimes you have to look below the surface...
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Sandi » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:09 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:Yes, the Antarctic has more surface ice due to cooler air temperatures than normal. Yet it's lost more ice than the Arctic due to warmer ocean water. Your charts shows the loss of surface area ice only. Sometimes you have to look below the surface...


As much as I google I find nothing to back your claim. How about a link or chart?
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby jonnygothispen » Fri Jun 27, 2014 8:57 pm

There are also charts at this link:

Between 1992 and 2011, the Antarctic Ice Sheets overall lost 1350 giga-tonnes (Gt) or 1,350,000,000,000 tonnes into the oceans, at an average rate of 70 Gt per year (Gt/yr). Because a reduction in mass of 360 Gt/year represents an annual global-average sea level rise of 1 mm, these estimates equate to an increase in global-average sea levels by 0.19 mm/yr.


Skeptic arguments that Antarctica is gaining ice frequently hinge on an error of omission, namely ignoring the difference between land ice and sea ice.


http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... e-sceptics

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... expedition

... the ACE CRC report says that in one area of Antarctica – the Bellingshausen Sea – the rate of sea ice loss is actually greater than the fastest melting regions of the Arctic.

As counter-intuitive as it sounds, Dr Jan Lieser, lead author of the ACE CRC report, told me the increase in sea ice is consistent with the changes in a warming world.

The sea ice is sitting at the interface of the ocean and the atmosphere, and so it gets a double-whammy effect. We actually understand the physics of this quite well. It is because of the warming that we can see the sea ice increasing at the moment.

Speaking from Hobart and an international gathering of scientists to discuss polar sea ice, Dr Lieser said the picture of change in the Antarctic was complex.

But he said increased wind, wave and storm activity in the Antarctic helped to stir up the waters, creating ridges and rifts that helps sea ice to thicken.

Professor Ian Simmonds, of the University of Melbourne's School of Earth sciences, also told journalists that while it might seem paradoxical to have sea ice growing in a warming world, scientists understood the mechanisms behind it.

He said an increase in westerly winds across the continent which were linked to increasing greenhouse gas emissions were helping to create ideal conditions for ice to form, particularly in those areas where there have been marked rises in ocean ice.

... But the ACE CRC report notes that the current modest trend in rising Antarctic sea ice will likely be short lived.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astronom ... rable.html

CryoSat, a European Space Agency Earth-observing satellite, has found a sharp increase in the rate at which Antarctic land ice is melting—it’s losing a staggering 159 billion (yes, billion, with a b) tons of ice every year. Previous measurements (made from 2005 to 2010) were lower, closer to 100 billion tons per year.


Greenland is more vulnerable to melting that previously thought, and it turns out the culprit is the same as for Antarctica: warming ocean water.


Arctic sea ice loss continues apace. It reached a record low extent in 2012, and this year the amount of ice has been consistently below the amount of ice in 2012 for the same day and month. I’ll note that in 2012 there was an unusual event; an ice dam collapsed, allowing the melting of a large amount of ice. That’s why the year broke the record. But, despite the unending deceptions from the deniers saying arctic ice “recovered” in 2013, it is in fact still far, far below average, and the overall trend over time is for more loss.


Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I've always believed that more ice melts as temperatures increase. Just a hunch I spose, but anyway...
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Sandi » Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:36 pm

Jonny with a pen. Both your articles deal with ice area.
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby gargantua » Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:33 am

Another example of reading and comprehension not being the same thing.
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby DCB » Sat Jun 28, 2014 7:55 pm

Jonny's post emphasizes the difference between land ice (which has a big effect on sea level) and sea ice (which doesn't).

I had assumed that the latter had no effect at all. But the Slate article links to this,, where I learned that melting sea ice does raise sea levels (by a small amount). This is because the ice (which is freshwater) is less dense than the saltwater.

I learned something new.
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby DCB » Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:01 pm

Anyway, we know that land ice is melting, and the sea level is rising. Which means that coastal areas will be flooded.

They didn't like that message down in North Carolina, so they voted to stick their heads in the soon-to-be-inundated sand.
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Re: 97% Scientist Consensus: global warming is man-made

Postby Ned Flanders » Tue Jul 01, 2014 1:18 pm

NOAA makes a "revision"...

Despite the 2012 announcement that July 2012 was the hottest month on record, meteorologist Anthony Watts noticed that the government secretly backtracked on the data.

Watts pointed out that the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA) reinstated July 1936 as the warmest month “as if by magic.”


Read more: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/sean-long/ ... z36F4lRkLh
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