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Obamacare hiccup

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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Huckleby » Wed Jul 03, 2013 2:46 pm

the thing to focus on is universal health care.

"Single payer", a system where the gov handles all insurance claims, is easy to understand and trust. But there are many ways to skin a cat. I prefer a transverse cross section, you get right to the meat.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Ned Flanders » Wed Jul 03, 2013 3:03 pm

Huckleby wrote: easy to understand and trust.

.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Huckleby » Wed Jul 03, 2013 5:28 pm

Ned, all I'm saying is that a single payer system such as medicare is simple, well understood, and has proven effective. Americans love and trust medicare.

Obamacare is built on a complex system of regulation, and it's tricky to get right because you have to wrestle with many competing interests. But the Swiss system demonstrates that Obamacare can evolve to be highly effective, and in many ways superior to single payer. For instance, the Swiss have the shortest wait times for procedures in the world. Everybody in Switzerland has insurance purchased from a government regulated & subsidized marketplace.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Sandi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 4:57 am

Huckleby wrote:Americans love and trust medicare.


Americans don't trust medicare, they use it because, for older retired people, it's more affordable. The price is the only thing that they like about it.

I should add most people are also aware that it is riff with fraudulent claims. Hopefully that will be reduced under Obamacare.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Huckleby » Thu Jul 04, 2013 9:52 am

Sandi wrote: Americans don't trust medicare, they use it because, for older retired people, it's more affordable. The price is the only thing that they like about it.

No, not just price. It is simple and predictable. Very high satisfaction rates. See Tea Party protesters demanding that government keep its hands off their medicare.

I agree that there is too much fraud and overuse in medicare. It needs reform. In my opinion, single payer is not the optimal system, but it is a good way to go.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:21 am

Huckleby wrote: In my opinion, single payer is not the optimal system, but it is a good way to go.

So in your opinion, what would be optimal?
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Huckleby » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:29 am

Optimal is a mixture of (heavily regulated) private and public.

France, Japan and Switzerland are systems that are kicking ass, and though they are very different systems, a point they have in common is a healthy level of private participation.

It's possible that the left is correct, and our corporate-dominated government is just too corrupt to ever make regulation work. Single payer takeover is needed to slay the dragon. I don't share that judgement. I think Obamacare is leading the way to the promised land. I would ultimately like to see the exchanges used to deliver ALL health insurance - get rid of medicaid and medicare and just have one system. No, I am not Paul Ryan, and it is a long way off.

The insurance system really is not so critical, I am fine with medicare for all, what matters is universal coverage.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Sandi » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:46 pm

Huckleby wrote:Optimal is a mixture of (heavily regulated) private and public.


The heavier the government regulates anything, the more it costs the public. Not saying it shouldn't be regulated, but "heavily" is very scary to me.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Jul 04, 2013 1:50 pm

Sandi wrote:The heavier the government regulates anything, the more it costs the public.

Then why do other western-style democracies with universal health care spend less per capita with better health outcomes than the U.S.?
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby wack wack » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:21 am

Sandi wrote:
Huckleby wrote:Optimal is a mixture of (heavily regulated) private and public.


The heavier the government regulates anything, the more it costs the public. Not saying it shouldn't be regulated, but "heavily" is very scary to me.


Government regulation leads to less cost to the public, as it prevents collusion, price-fixing and other shenanigans across industries.

Those who call constantly call for less regulation are only looking for more latitude to screw the public, nothing else.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Sandi » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:07 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Then why do other western-style democracies with universal health care spend less per capita with better health outcomes than the U.S.?


They may spend less, but there is no better healthcare anywhere in the world than the US. Why do you thing so many from government run healthcare countries come here for treatment? But that will all end with Obamacare.

Huckleby wrote:But the Swiss system demonstrates that Obamacare can evolve to be highly effective, and in many ways superior to single payer.


The Swiss system is private-sector universal coverage other than government subsidies for 20% that are poor.

Link

Unlike the U.S. system, in which employers or governments select health insurance, in Switzerland, it is the consumers themselves who purchase their health insurance. The Swiss have considerable experience with some of the consumer-driven insurance policies newly introduced in the United States, such as those with high deductibles.

....

Swiss consumers, not employers or the government, primarily pay for the country’s health care expenses. In 2000, 43 percent of consumers’ payments were for insurance premiums (about 67 percent of total health care costs), 0.1 percent for deductibles and copayments (about 5 percent of total health care costs), and 28 percent for all other out-of-pocket payments, such as those for over-the-counter drugs (19 percent of the total).


And only one fifth of Swiss citizens receive a subsidy. In other words, the Swiss healthcare is more like the US before Obamacare but with subsidies for about twenty percent that can't buy their own.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Henry Vilas » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:25 pm

Sandi wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Then why do other western-style democracies with universal health care spend less per capita with better health outcomes than the U.S.?

They may spend less, but there is no better healthcare anywhere in the world than the US.

Not so. For example: infant mortality by country. Compare the U.S. to western-style democracies with universal health care. The same holds true for other health issues.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Huckleby » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:37 pm

Sandi wrote: In other words, the Swiss healthcare is more like the US before Obamacare but with subsidies for about twenty percent that can't buy their own.


This is a very odd statement. You realize that the pre-Obamacare U.S. has 55 million uninsured people. How does this look like Switzerland, which has universal health care?

The Swiss government heavily regulates the insurance companies, requires minimum benefits, cuts out all the funny business that allow insurance companies to get out of paying, and it does not allow insurance companies to reject people for pre-existing conditions.
How is this like pre-Obamacare U.S.?

If you like Switzerland's system, you like Obamacare.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby rabble » Fri Jul 05, 2013 4:46 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Sandi wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Then why do other western-style democracies with universal health care spend less per capita with better health outcomes than the U.S.?

They may spend less, but there is no better healthcare anywhere in the world than the US.

Not so. For example: infant mortality by country. Compare the U.S. to western-style democracies with universal health care. The same holds true for other health issues.

I'm sure Sandi meant to say "for those who can pay." When you tack that part on, it becomes a true statement.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Bert Ernie » Fri Jul 05, 2013 5:25 pm

Sandi wrote:They may spend less, but there is no better healthcare anywhere in the world than the US.


Come on Sandi. You're better than this. Do you REALLY believe this to be true? Based on exactly what? Have you ever actually LIVED anywhere else?

It's sad when people feel so patriotic that they are afraid to acknowledge when something in this nation is broken (see the blind following Scott Walker to the bottom for a prime example. Folks look at the numbers and STILL claim "it's working!!" Huh?) That's not how things improve and get better. Acknowledge when things suck Sandi! Regardless of what side of the aisle from whence they come. The healthcare system in this nation is morally bankrupt AND, beyond that, we are simply paying significantly more for POORER outcomes. Best healthcare in the world? Whaaaaaat?
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