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Obamacare hiccup

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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:07 am

After attempts to sell the company had failed, employees pooled their retirement savings as a $107 million down payment, coupling that with bonds and bank loans to put the business in the hands of people who knew it best.


http://www.jsonline.com/business/29183999.html

Unfortunately, Walmart and McDonalds have complete shit retirement programs and are vastly bigger than this company.

I don't think anyone ever disagreed that people can buy out companies, but you need to look at the size of the company and not just numbers. That makes a big difference when it comes to banks giving out loans.

Plus, this company WAS trying to sell. Apples and Oranges.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Aug 21, 2013 9:47 am

Another thing to consider is that some shares offered for sale are non-voting stocks. The buyer can share in the profits (or losses) in the corporation, but has no say over the board of directors or company policy.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby fisticuffs » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:08 am

Gingrich speaking some sense.
http://wallstcheatsheet.com/stocks/ging ... ml/?ref=YF
What a RINO.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby snoqueen » Wed Aug 21, 2013 10:09 am

1)Thanks for coming up with the "float" (percentage of publicly traded shares) -- I didn't bother because it wasn't necessary to my argument, but it nails a good point: the ones who have, get. The ones who don't have are very unlikely ever to catch up.

2)Private parties can borrow money to buy shares of stock, so it's not crazy to ask how in certain cases a company was purchased by its employees. Nobody is likely to loan Walmart employees money for this purpose.

3)
I think you can get the paper certificates if you want them, though why anyone would is a puzzler to me. They do look nice and some people do collect old stock certificates as art.


I've got a whole drawer of these from the pre-Depression era -- gold mines in Arizona, rail lines, land speculation... you name it. Some of them really are beautiful. My paternal grandfather was a stockbroker who went bust in the Great Depression and that was all that was left. I've never been able to figure out what to do with them.

4)Walmart has a single class of shares, meaning all the shares get an equal vote. Presently Walmart is indeed a controlled company, meaning family members own more than 50% of its shares. You can read about the implications of this relatively new development here.A lot of other Walmart stock is owned by mutual funds or other firms who generally vote with management, making it even less likely a group of individuals could put together their pennies and buy a controlling interest in the company. Take a look at what your own retirement funds are holding -- you've probably got some WMT in there.

This whole discussion is nuts and, once again, has become a JFH exercise in seeing how long he can get attention and string everyone else along.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Detritus » Wed Aug 21, 2013 11:07 am

snoqueen wrote:This whole discussion is nuts and, once again, has become a JFH exercise in seeing how long he can get attention and string everyone else along.

Meanwhile, back in reality, Wisconsin leads the nation is throwing people off Medicaid.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Zoti Bemba » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:15 pm

snoqueen wrote:I've got a whole drawer of these from the pre-Depression era -- gold mines in Arizona, rail lines, land speculation... you name it. Some of them really are beautiful. My paternal grandfather was a stockbroker who went bust in the Great Depression and that was all that was left. I've never been able to figure out what to do with them.


Slightly off subject but I once worked for a woman whose guest bathroom was papered with old stock certificates. Well, strictly speaking only the ceiling was stock certificates -- the walls were old New Yorker covers.

In these uncertain times you might want to paper over something more portable, like a bookcase or a dresser or a night stand. Or a suitably protected coffee table, if anyone still has those...



Back to reveling in dark portents of Obamacare-spawned social and economic disaster. Quickly, now! Before history proves the naysayers wrong!
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Stella_Guru » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:41 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Another thing to consider is that some shares offered for sale are non-voting stocks. The buyer can share in the profits (or losses) in the corporation, but has no say over the board of directors or company policy.

I know of this professional football team that has duped their fans into thinking they are actually purchasing stock.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Henry Vilas » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:54 pm

Stella_Guru wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Another thing to consider is that some shares offered for sale are non-voting stocks. The buyer can share in the profits (or losses) in the corporation, but has no say over the board of directors or company policy.

I know of this professional football team that has duped their fans into thinking they are actually purchasing stock.

Yet Packer stock holders can actually vote at their annual meeting.

I once had a share of the Press Connection. Nothing to vote about.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Aug 21, 2013 12:59 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Yet Packer stock holders can actually vote at their annual meeting.


Stella just needs something else to be angry about in life.

Meanwhile:

According to a study by The Commonwealth Fund, “While public opinion polls have consistently shown a partisan divide in views of the health reform law, the survey finds that young adults who identified themselves as Republicans enrolled in their parents’ policies in greater numbers than young adults who identified themselves as Democrats. In March 2013, 63 percent of Republican young adults had enrolled in a parent’s policy in the past 12 months, compared with 45 percent of Democrats.”


http://www.politicususa.com/2013/08/21/ ... nefit.html

I realize that this is only one part of the ACA(which I will continue to call it no matter what anyone else wants to) but you get rid of it as most congressional repubs want, and this part gets eliminated. They're losing the rhetoric battle and the next generation of Republicans know this. I say, keep up the fight dipshits, because you're digging your own grave.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby O.J. » Wed Aug 21, 2013 1:02 pm

Stella's just upset that she can't vote Jay Cutler off the island.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Aug 22, 2013 11:54 am

Texas Governor Rick Perry first says that Obamacare needs to go away. But now he is asking the federal government for a hundred million dollars to implement health care reform. Kinda contradictory, isn't it?

Then there is our own Scott Walker. No only is he refusing to set up health care exchanges, he also leads the nation in kicking people off of Medicaid.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby Stella_Guru » Thu Aug 22, 2013 3:28 pm

Stebben84 wrote:Stella just needs something else to be angry about in life.

Well, I would rather be pissed off than pissed on.
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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:11 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Another thing to consider is that some shares offered for sale are non-voting stocks. The buyer can share in the profits (or losses) in the corporation, but has no say over the board of directors or company policy.


But is that the case in any of the companies we have been discussing here? Walmart, McD et al?

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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:19 pm

snoqueen wrote:My paternal grandfather was a stockbroker who went bust in the Great Depression and that was all that was left. I've never been able to figure out what to do with them.


They may not be worth anything as stock but they may be collectible and could be worth anything from a couple dollars to a couple hundred.

OTOH, some of these companies whose stock went to zero were later acquired and may actually be worth some real money. You might want to check them out.

As for my share of IP, I think it is worth around $100 but some years ago I looked into selling it and it involved a lot of rigamarole that seemed more trouble than it was worth.
[quote]
Presently Walmart is indeed a controlled company, meaning family members own more than 50% of its shares. You can read about the implications of this relatively new development here

I stand corrected. I had found several reports from earlier this year that said they owned in the mid 40s. One report did say that they were working toward buying 50% but it sounded like it was a year or two away.

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Re: Obamacare hiccup

Postby johnfajardohenry » Fri Aug 23, 2013 12:30 pm

This whole conversation about Walmart got started around the idea that many of their employees don't get a medical plan.

Walmart's profit is about $8,000 per employee.

A medical plan would cost around $10,000 per employee. Probably more after Obiecare kicks in. See the recent stories about UPS and UVA.

Since the medical care would be pretax, it might break even and still leave $1,000 or so per employee profit for the Walmart owners.

So what would happen to Walmart if it became unprofitable?

Walmart has no guarantee on immortality. Anyone remember A&P Supermarkets? Not all that long ago they sold more than 50% (IIRC) of all groceries sold in the US. Had 40 or so fairly good size manufacturing plants. Also large, perhaps majority, family ownership.

Even had their own Congressman who made a career out of castigating A&P.

Now they are down to a few dozen stores.

Sear Roebuck is still in business. Used to be the biggest retailer in the world at one point. A few years ago they were bought by K-Mart which has gone bankrupt 2-3 times in the past 20 years or so.

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