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Detroit goes under.

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Re: Detroit goes under.

Postby WestSideYuppie » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:23 pm

I grew up in a suburb of Detroit, during the reign of Coleman Young. In my view, it's a mistake to say that the government of Detroit is representative of the Democratic Party. Most Michigan Democrats cringed whenever they read about what was going on in Detroit. I'd have described Detroit as a "machine" government that happened to call itself Democrat. Granted, the Democratic Party never disowned that government.

Detroit, and the rest of Michigan, were always at daggers drawn, as long as I can remember. Candidates for state office, throughout Michigan, ran on "anti-Detroit" rhetoric.

The problem of over-reliance on the car industry was a problem throughout all of Michigan. During every recession, there was talk of diversifying away from autos. When the recession ended and folks started buying cars again, we went back to making cars and bits of cars. Detroit just got the worst of the downturns, and never really benefited from the upturns.
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Re: Detroit goes under.

Postby Sandi » Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:36 pm

penquin wrote:This theory that Detroit's demise is the sole fault of the Democratic Party is intriguing. For sake of comparison, would someone be willing to list 3 or 4 major cities (not little towns, but major cities) that have thrived and flourished under GOP leadership?


Just to name a few....

Rudy Giuliani New York 1994 to 2001
Tom Leppert Dallas TX 2007-2011
Mick Cornett Oklahoma City 2004 - Present

Compare the success of those cities to Dem run cities like Milwaukee, Chicago, Detroit.
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Re: Detroit goes under.

Postby penquin » Fri Jul 19, 2013 12:33 am

Sandi wrote:Rudy Giuliani New York 1994 to 2001
Tom Leppert Dallas TX 2007-2011
Mick Cornett Oklahoma City 2004 - Present


I ain't trying to nit-pick, but all three of those fellas seem kinda RINOish.

While it is true that Rudy Giuliani was labeled as a "Republican" at the time, he was also endorsed by the Liberal Party because of his views on gay rights, gun control, and affirmative action. Tom Leppert put his city over $388 million in order to finance a convention center, with a lot of help from one of Obama's stimulus programs. And it looks like Mick Cornett's success in OK City is due mostly to "progressive issues/initiatives such as rapid and mass transit, economic diversification, urban renaissance, and civic beautification." Plus he put his city "on a diet", and went on the Ellen Show to promote it.

*shrug*
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Re: Detroit goes under.

Postby Jattpw » Fri Jul 19, 2013 8:34 am

There is blame to go around for everyone to take a hit. But this is an interesting process for a few reasons. We have the State taking control of the City by citing that Cities are a utality of the State and then the State saying Detroit can't pay it's bills. Isn't the State liabel to some degree than? We have a previously urban land mass that is approximately 50% vacant at this point and probably 50% government owned via back taxes.

If done right, this is an opportunity for reorganization of everything from political boundries to education systems to creating whole new economies based on anything from agriculture to ship building. If done wrong, all they will do is write down the pensions to pay off the bond holders and leave Detroit to continue rotting away.

This is a very different situation than Chicago or Cleveland or Milwaukee. This is 100 square miles of waste land interspersed with 50 miles functional City. No other City in the "developed" world currently has such a stark reality and no other City provides this opportunity for total leveling and rebirth. Geographically, Detroit still has many factors going for it.
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Re: Detroit goes under.

Postby bdog » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:23 am

Check out the documentary "Detropia". I think you can stream it on Netflix. The Mayor tried to push a plan to get people out of the sparsely populated areas. Citizens in these areas were understandably not happy but at the same time clueless about just how shaky the city was financially.
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Re: Detroit goes under.

Postby gargantua » Fri Jul 19, 2013 9:32 am

This post will probably satisfy no one, but the fact is that there is plenty of blame to go around. Sno and others are correct that the demise of the auto industry in Detroit is the single largest factor in the decline of the city. But, Ned and Sandi also have a point that the city's political leaders, who happened to be Democrats, should share some blame. Many of them were corrupt and/or incompetent. Attempting to defend or deflect their role just hurts one's credibility. Where Ned and Sandi go off the rails is in insisting that Democrats and unions are the main reason the city failed. The failure of the auto industry was largely due to a lack of vision and judgement by MANAGEMENT.
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Re: Detroit goes under.

Postby Detritus » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:13 am

Incidentally, Detroit is the largest city to file for bankruptcy, but it's hardly the only municipality to do so. Surprisingly, they don't all appear to be in areas controlled by Democrats.
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Re: Detroit goes under.

Postby bdog » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:15 am

I see a parallel to the North side losing rhythm and booms. People are talking about it being a tradition they wanted to have their kids and grandkids have as well. From my perspective R&B was still a relatively new thing (20 yrs still seems like yesterday).

It was a temporary thing, always.

GM management AND workers had this same blindspot. They just assumed they'd always be on top because they didn't know anything else, and probably "because America".

Watch Detropia. It's obvious to the nightclub owner that the foreign cars are a better deal. No one else got it.

Detroit was a temporary thing, always.
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Re: Detroit goes under.

Postby snoqueen » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:20 am

I'm not going to spam the forum with links no one will click, but there's another, more encouraging side to what's happening in Detroit. Temporary is one term for it, but continual change is another.

Is Detroit the next Berlin? For the past several years, artists, musicians and others seeking time and space to work, and an inexpensive place to live have flocked to the German city. Now it seems that Detriot may be headed towards a similar influx of like-minded people.

Detroit has been in economic decline for some time now, and the current recession has made things even worse – or into an opportunity, depending how you look at it. At this point in Detriot, you can purchase a house for as low as $100. Urban pioneers are beginning to move in to take advantage of these low prices, and are transforming these run-down properties. New residents are helping to re-build the community with green building renovations, community gardens and art projects.


With just a few searches, I found more Detroit native-plant-restoration, gardening, demolition and recycling, urban off-the-grid-living and homesteading, artists' collectives, musicians, and old-home-salvage sites than even I expected (along with some very interesting pictures). Wherever there's opportunity, somebody usually comes in and takes it.

That little quote was from
http://www.psfk.com/2009/03/detroits-rebirth.html.
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Re: Detroit goes under.

Postby bdog » Fri Jul 19, 2013 10:36 am

Sno, that aspect is covered in Detropia as well.
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Re: Detroit goes under.

Postby snoqueen » Fri Jul 19, 2013 3:40 pm

Yes it is. I like that documentary a lot and have watched it several times. Here is one of many links to more info: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2125490/

Newest news: a county judge has put Detroit's bankruptcy on hold for now.
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Re: Detroit goes under.

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Fri Jul 19, 2013 4:28 pm

snoqueen wrote:Newest news: a county judge has put Detroit's bankruptcy on hold for now.



Just when I was getting my hopes up for a real live robo-cop
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Re: Detroit goes under.

Postby WestSideYuppie » Fri Jul 19, 2013 6:30 pm

In my view, the question of whether Republicans could have saved Detroit is moot. They would have to have made themselves electable. Then we'd be talking about a different party. Also, the hypothetical Republican Party of the past is not the Tea Party of today.
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Re: Detroit goes under.

Postby iwiw99 » Sat Jul 20, 2013 7:36 am

Detroit is a major American city. Step up Mr President et al.. I will move there first if it is what it takes. (MI Guard), but what if I get a neighbor. (sorry takes a village), Saw the Tigers there, ate chicken behind bulletproofglass, and lastly went to a great gay bar. (security was high). There is too much money out there not to fix this.
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Re: Detroit goes under.

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Sat Jul 20, 2013 8:11 am

WestSideYuppie wrote:They would have to have made themselves electable.


Well they could always use the David Clark method
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