MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus:         Newsletters 
Tuesday, March 3, 2015 |  Madison, WI: 23.0° F  Light Snow Fog/Mist
Collapse Photo Bar

51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Funding

Races for the Senate, U.S. House, etc. and other issues of national importance.

Re: 51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Fundi

Postby ilikebeans » Sat Sep 21, 2013 10:48 pm

rabble wrote:
Sandi wrote:
rabble wrote:And I'm curious why you didn't say "obamacare."

Obamacare and ACA mean the same. I can't say any particular reason why, maybe I was lazy and 3 letters easier is to type.

Which enforces my original theory that the word has lost the negative connotation the right tried to give it.

I remember Huck predicted that would happen soon after Obama managed to get it through.

Not entirely:
Republicans Like The Affordable Care Act More Than Obamacare

Republican support for the law jumped eight percent, from 14 percent for Obamacare to 22 percent for the Affordable Care Act, when pollsters revised the question's language.

Overall support increased from 34 percent to 39 percent with the change. Democratic support moved one percent; independent support rose four percent.
ilikebeans
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2956
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:23 am

Re: 51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Fundi

Postby rabble » Sun Sep 22, 2013 10:47 am

ilikebeans wrote:
rabble wrote:Which enforces my original theory that the word has lost the negative connotation the right tried to give it.

Not entirely:
Republicans Like The Affordable Care Act More Than Obamacare

Republican support for the law jumped eight percent, from 14 percent for Obamacare to 22 percent for the Affordable Care Act, when pollsters revised the question's language.

Overall support increased from 34 percent to 39 percent with the change. Democratic support moved one percent; independent support rose four percent.

Yes, but it's changed. The Republicans originally tried to use it as a general pejorative. They wanted it in the lexicon as a negative. "Obamacare" was supposed to mean "failure."

Instead, as I have recently been informed, it's just another word for the Affordable Care Act and "Obamacare" is an internal wingnut buzzword along with "gun control" and "warmenist."

Its negative connotations now are mostly confined to conversations within the right wing. If you say Obamacare in general conversation it's not clear whether you're against it or not, without context. Of course any word that consists of "Obama" mixed with any other word is a negative when Republicans are talking amongst themselves.

Which goes a long way to explaining why they're willing to shut down the entire country, which would have to involve at least some deaths of innocents who depend on government services, rather than do anything Obama wants.
rabble
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6819
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: 51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Fundi

Postby Sandi » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:09 pm

rabble wrote:Its negative connotations now are mostly confined to conversations within the right wing.

If it ever had any negative connotations, I think they were all in your head. I likely talk to a hell of a lot more conservatives than you do, and have only heard the bill spoken of in the negative. Not head the name.

Even Obama likes the name "Obamacare." That alone would make conservatives not use it as a negative.
Sandi
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1958
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: 51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Fundi

Postby you must be joking » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:36 pm

So here is my question. Why do most of you trust Obama that this new ACA or Obama Care will work the way he said it will when most everything that comes out of that man's mouth has been proven to be a lie?

Remember when his administration told us that our government was not spying on our phone conversations?
Proved to be a lie.

Remember when his administration told us that our government was not intercepting our emails?
Proved to be a lie.

Remember when his administration told us that our government was not spying on those who use social media?
Proved to be a lie.

For a good overview on this go to the "Mother Jones" magazine article titled: "How We Got From 9/11 to Massive NSA Spying on Americans: A Timeline"

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/09/nsa-timeline-surveillance

Why do you trust this man when it comes to telling you that Obama care will work?

Why do you trust this man at all?
you must be joking
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 203
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:05 am
Location: Madison

Re: 51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Fundi

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Sep 22, 2013 2:47 pm

Yet you trusted Bush even after he lied about the reasons to invade Iraq, killing hundreds of thousands and costing the taxpayer trillions of dollars. All a terrible waste.

Conservatives are afraid that if Obamacare is fully enacted, Americans will like it.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20563
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Re: 51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Fundi

Postby Galoot » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:39 pm

I think the ACA will work fairly well for several reasons. For starters, it has worked for years in Massachusetts, in the form of Romneycare. And plans that are very much like the ACA work in other nations. Several European nations do not have single-payer national healthcare, they have something very much like the ACA, where insurance markets were set up and everybody has to have some form of insurance.

The evidence from places like California is that it will work quite well, since the plans offered on the marketplace here are substantially less expensive than plans currently sold.
Galoot
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1464
Joined: Thu Jun 14, 2001 1:10 pm

Re: 51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Fundi

Postby Sandi » Sun Sep 22, 2013 3:43 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Yet you trusted Bush even after he lied about the reasons to invade Iraq, killing hundreds of thousands and costing the taxpayer trillions of dollars. All a terrible waste.

Conservatives are afraid that if Obamacare is fully enacted, Americans will like it.


Ah. Two wrongs make a right? Grow up.
Sandi
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1958
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: 51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Fundi

Postby alpuz » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:06 pm

Sandi wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Yet you trusted Bush even after he lied about the reasons to invade Iraq, killing hundreds of thousands and costing the taxpayer trillions of dollars. All a terrible waste.

Conservatives are afraid that if Obamacare is fully enacted, Americans will like it.


Ah. Two wrongs make a right? Grow up.


What 'Two wrongs,' Sandi? We know the Bush administration lied to us about Iraq. We know it cost us lives and shit tons of money.

What is the other wrong? A link to a story at MotherJones(did you read the article)?

What ever happened to 'If you have nothing to hide' why worry?

If the right is so against 'Obamacare' why is it doing everything it can to stop it? Wouldn't it be politically expedient to let it roll?
alpuz
Senior Member
 
Posts: 93
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 5:52 pm

Re: 51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Fundi

Postby DCB » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:29 pm

Obama has lied about the NSA, because he could - much of their activities are classified.

The ACA was debated and written in the open, and its not classified. Its been analyzed by the CBO. It would be pretty hard to 'lie' about it's effects.
DCB
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2931
Joined: Fri Jun 20, 2008 5:08 pm

Re: 51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Fundi

Postby snoqueen » Sun Sep 22, 2013 4:49 pm

Also, saying Obamacare will work well is a statement about the future. A statement about what will happen in the future cannot be either true or false because we do not know the future.

A lie is a false statement and you cannot make false statements (or true ones) about what has not happened yet.

We don't know for sure whether the ACA will work well (though the state of Massachusetts and various other countries have had good experiences with similar health care laws). To say "we don't know yet" would be a true statement.

Obama and others lying about the NSA means they lied about what had already happened, which obviously they should not have done and no one here is pleased with them. That's not the same thing as making statements about the future, though.

Sandi, do you get this?
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 12075
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: 51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Fundi

Postby Sandi » Sun Sep 22, 2013 5:12 pm

What I think is ya all posting in the wrong thread.
Sandi
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1958
Joined: Sun Jul 17, 2005 11:31 pm

Re: 51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Fundi

Postby jman111 » Mon Sep 23, 2013 7:21 am

Sandi, do you get this?

Image
jman111
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3228
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 12:43 pm
Location: Dane County

Re: 51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Fundi

Postby fennel » Mon Sep 23, 2013 10:38 am

http://www.cnbc.com/id/101053976
The CNBC All-America Economic Survey of 800 people across the country conducted by Hart-McInturff, finds that, in general, Americans oppose defunding Obamacare by a plurality of 44 percent to 38 percent.
fennel
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3303
Joined: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Inside the Green Zone, Madison

Re: 51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Fundi

Postby pjbogart » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:16 am

Honestly, I don't care what percentage of Americans want Obamacare defunded. If your opinion is based on complete nonsense, then your opinion is complete nonsense. Republicans aren't trying to kill Obamacare with carefully crafted policy arguments to show people why the ACA is bad, they're trying to kill it with lies, distortions and panic. Fine, 38% of Americans want the ACA defunded. Hell, let's go with 51%, it makes no difference. If 90% of those who want it defunded are living in la-la land why should I care about their opinion?
pjbogart
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6283
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2003 4:57 pm

Re: 51% Favor Shutdown Until Congress Cuts Health Care Fundi

Postby ilikebeans » Mon Sep 23, 2013 11:46 am

Bears repeating:
Henry Vilas wrote:Conservatives are afraid that if Obamacare is fully enacted, Americans will like it.
ilikebeans
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2956
Joined: Mon Nov 05, 2007 2:23 am

PreviousNext

Return to National Politics & Government

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


  ISTHMUS FLICKR
Created with flickr badge.

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar