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"Women and Children First" still in practice??

If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it fits here

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue May 15, 2007 5:43 pm

universitylad wrote:
Which cruise ship company did you use?
Princess, I think.
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Postby narcoleptish » Tue May 15, 2007 10:15 pm

U lad you. Just when I think I've seen the oddest thread, written without any hint of sarcasm or levity, you start another one.

Keep it up.

You're an integral part of the strange mix that makes this place work so well.
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Postby chubby » Fri May 18, 2007 7:22 pm

northwoods_babe wrote:Why should a woman's paycheck be less than a man's if she is doing the same work?

Why should a woman be passed over for a promotion because her employers fear she could become 'in the family way' now that she is married?

If you are worried about benevolent sexism coming back to bite you in the ass in the highly unlikely event you are ever stranded on a sinking ship, maybe you should start doing something to eliminate the second class status women have in pretty much every other situation.

Otherwise, boo fricking hoo.


the wage gap between men and women is mostly due to the fact that men take more valuable, more demanding more time-consuming, and more dangerous work than women, (marilyn vos savant says so!) men take work more seriously than women. and if you get knocked up, its your own damn fault, not your employer's, so why should he/she/they suffer? btw, i wonder what you mean by "benevolent sexism". i'm guessing you mean sexism against women is bad, sexism against men is benevolent.
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Postby universitylad » Sat May 19, 2007 4:00 pm

chubby wrote:
northwoods_babe wrote:Why should a woman's paycheck be less than a man's if she is doing the same work?

Why should a woman be passed over for a promotion because her employers fear she could become 'in the family way' now that she is married?

If you are worried about benevolent sexism coming back to bite you in the ass in the highly unlikely event you are ever stranded on a sinking ship, maybe you should start doing something to eliminate the second class status women have in pretty much every other situation.

Otherwise, boo fricking hoo.


the wage gap between men and women is mostly due to the fact that men take more valuable, more demanding more time-consuming, and more dangerous work than women, (marilyn vos savant says so!) men take work more seriously than women. and if you get knocked up, its your own damn fault, not your employer's, so why should he/she/they suffer? btw, i wonder what you mean by "benevolent sexism". i'm guessing you mean sexism against women is bad, sexism against men is benevolent.


Interesting. I just found Marilyn Vos Savant's column on the subject:

http://walt.mercersburg.net/me/resources/women.html
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Postby towanda » Sat May 19, 2007 4:11 pm

Wow. I love watching people participate in their own oppression.
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Postby bluethedog » Sat May 19, 2007 5:29 pm

towanda wrote:Wow. I love watching people participate in their own oppression.

Which parts of her article did you disagree with and why?
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Postby northwoods_babe » Sun May 20, 2007 9:00 am

chubby wrote:btw, i wonder what you mean by "benevolent sexism". i'm guessing you mean sexism against women is bad, sexism against men is benevolent.


Benevolent sexism is a term used by psychologists and social scientists to refer to a type of sexism against women. Examples of benevolent sexism include coddling women, putting them on pedestals, valuing their "fragility" above their strength, their "devotion to family" above their independence, etc.

The other type of sexism is hostile sexism, which includes among other things, rape and violence against women.

Get it now, genius?
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Postby universitylad » Sun May 20, 2007 9:19 pm

northwoods_babe wrote:If you are worried about benevolent sexism coming back to bite you in the ass in the highly unlikely event you are ever stranded on a sinking ship, maybe you should start doing something to eliminate the second class status women have in pretty much every other situation.

Otherwise, boo fricking hoo.


northwoods_babe wrote:
chubby wrote:btw, i wonder what you mean by "benevolent sexism". i'm guessing you mean sexism against women is bad, sexism against men is benevolent.


Benevolent sexism is a term used by psychologists and social scientists to refer to a type of sexism against women. Examples of benevolent sexism include coddling women, putting them on pedestals, valuing their "fragility" above their strength, their "devotion to family" above their independence, etc.

The other type of sexism is hostile sexism, which includes among other things, rape and violence against women.

Get it now, genius?



lonesomejohnny wrote:In times of likely peril its a man's lot in life to forfeit himself to the ravages and chances of the treacherous sea rather than take the place of a child or woman among the living. It is undeserved, and there is no place for a man of this sort on the high seas. Would you really sit there in the lifeboat, thinking to yourself, "I'm sure glad that woman and child drowned so that I can prolong my miserable life of patronizing new retail establishments and coating my soft, girlish skin with fine lotions and ointments?"


Interesting. I had not realized a that the term "benevolent sexism" or ambivalent sexism had been coined. The last sociology/gender study class I took was back during my undergraduate days in the late '90's. I read a little bit about it today and discovered that it was coined by Glick and Fiske just after or around the time I'd taken the class. Of note, it seems that Professor Glick is currently the northwoods of our state at Lawrence University in Appleton.


Take the The Ambivalent Sexism Inventory:
http://www.understandingprejudice.org/asi/

How do you score?
----
Another site I was looking at stressed civility over chivalry--civility being "a two way street of considerate and generous behavior."

A nonscientific Washington Post article examined whether pregant women were offered seats on DC's Metro (subway). One pregnant woman notes the worst offenders for not offering seats were women in their twenties--would the same be said of lifeboats on a cruise ship...I'm not sure.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/10/AR2006051002263.html

What's the situation like on the Metro Buses these days in Madison for pregnant women? I can recall a time on the #80 a few years ago. An elderly man got on on the bus and the bus driver called for someone to give up a seat at the front of the bus and to move to the rear. Within the mix of male and female students at the front of the bus, no one moved and he ended up taking an empty seat near me at the rear of the bus.
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Postby chubby » Mon May 21, 2007 12:38 am

northwoods_babe wrote:
chubby wrote:btw, i wonder what you mean by "benevolent sexism". i'm guessing you mean sexism against women is bad, sexism against men is benevolent.


Benevolent sexism is a term used by psychologists and social scientists to refer to a type of sexism against women. Examples of benevolent sexism include coddling women, putting them on pedestals, valuing their "fragility" above their strength, their "devotion to family" above their independence, etc.

The other type of sexism is hostile sexism, which includes among other things, rape and violence against women.

Get it now, genius?


at last, someone recognizes my genius! and i do get it now, thanks for the tutorial.
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Postby universitylad » Wed May 23, 2007 7:15 pm

lonesomejohnny wrote:There's a fucking code of the sea at work here, that some people just dont understand.
....
In times of likely peril its a man's lot in life to forfeit himself to the ravages and chances of the treacherous sea rather than take the place of a child or woman among the living.


According to this "code of the sea", at what age does a male cease to be a child and become a man?...18? 21? perhaps even at 16?

I came across this article from Montreal today regarding this Greek cruise ship incident:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/montreal/story/2007/04/09/qc-greeceship200709.html

Strilchuk, 16, said she and her friends had no life-jackets. When she saw a man clutching one, she pleaded with him to hand it over.

She said she made a fist and punched him in the face when he wouldn't.

"He was holding it and he was 40 years old and we were kids," she explained, adding that she pulled the life-jacket from him and gave it to a friend.

Strilchuk said she later punched another man and took his life-jacket for herself.


Who knows..maybe the guy couldn't swim or had a heart condition. This type of violence is not called for. This young women seems proud of her violence--it should not be condoned.


And another about this same young woman...
http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmonton/2007/04/09/3961473-sun.html

She still likes cruises
Teen recounts harrowing hours as ship ran aground

Yeah...she still likes cruises because she can punch another person in the face and be called a hero. She can take a man's lifevest and likely be one of the first people to walk onto the lifeboat...no questions asked.
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Postby narcoleptish » Wed May 23, 2007 9:35 pm

You can't swim, can you U lad.

Either can I.
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Postby white_rabbit » Wed May 23, 2007 9:44 pm

I'm sorry, but if I've paid a few grand for a cruise and the ship is going down, the fucking life jacket on me, stays on me. Money paid to Princess Cruises is for vacation, not valor.
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Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Thu May 24, 2007 8:45 am

The thing is, if that chick didn't have a lifejacket, it's only because she left it in her cabin.

Everybody gets assigned a life jacket on a cruise ship and on Day One you run a drill and they tell you where it's kept in your cabin, how to put it on, which deck you should evacuate to, etc.
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