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Combatting Religion

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Re: Combatting Religion

Postby bleurose » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:48 am

I feel for your situation, Remember. I also have several (formerly) close friends from school who have "tipped over the edge" (my assessment) since we graduated. We all really had a good time while we were in school and that may have been due more to the common experience than the personal 'values', but I still feel like we were pretty connected. We still communicate fairly regularly; OK, we send Xmas letters once a year :oops:. What I find I really resent though is the apparent need of both of these individuals to put it in my face how deeply faithful they are. I am not interested in their religious feelings, but if I were to say something along those lines, it would definitely be construed as harassment/intolerance on my part. Never mind that I just might consider it at the least impolite that they feel it necessary to keep bringing it up every time they contact me. I sent one of these friend's kids some Halloween fun stuff one year and she had the gall to have the kids call me and proceed to tell me that they didn't believe in this because it was the devil's work! How f_____ing rude is that??!! But you can damn well bet that if I were to make any comment on the other side, then I'm the one who is the intolerant one.

And both of these former classmates are home schooling their kids. I have no doubt at all that it is done to keep them from being exposed to any ideas or thoughts that the parents don't agree with. Won't this make for good future citizens - NOT! :evil: As a potential employer, I would not consider hiring someone who spent their educational career before college in home schooling. When I see that they attended a private, religion-based college, that is the final strike.

But I digress. I admire you for at least giving it a try, but I also predict that there is no way he won't be preaching to you at every opportunity. Up to you how much of that you feel you can take because the zealots never accept "not interested" as a legitimate response.
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Re: Combatting Religion

Postby fennel » Fri Mar 23, 2012 10:39 pm

@bleurose:

This reminds me of an account I heard from a friend some years back. He had been educated in a Jesuit setting and, while he eventually became a non-believer, he retained a profound respect for the Jesuit tradition of intellectual inquiry. And he kept close contact with a number of former classmates who remained believers. That particular disparity was never an issue because each knew enough about the other to trust that each had done due diligence, as it were, before coming about their understandings. And no one expected of another that ideas could not evolve.

Not that they were resigned about their differences. In fact, they never stopped debating them, but there seemed to be an implicit understanding that it was better to lose adherents than to lose friends who may still inform you.

Anyway, all this to say that he had no reservation about enrolling his daughter in a Jesuit school ... until she was told – in reponse to an inconvenient question – "You can't ask that."

He made inquiries to make sure his daughter's account was correct, and by the next day, she was enrolled in the public school system. I don't think either of them have looked back.
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Re: Combatting Religion

Postby Kenneth Burns » Sun Mar 25, 2012 8:00 am

I've been on the other end of this, in a way. I'm a mainline Protestant, and I occasionally get flak. I tend not to initiate conversations about it with friends, but by the same token I don't conceal my activities and whereabouts, and when they ask questions I answer them honestly. There has been unpleasantness. Not many times. More often there is what I would call perplexity.
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Re: Combatting Religion

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun Mar 25, 2012 6:59 pm

Dangerousman wrote:In my experience it doesn't matter where the discussion of religion begins, but in the end it always boils down to one single unresolvable issue: belief based on faith vs belief based on reason.

Imagine two gauges, one with a needle that indicates the amount of evidence supporting a belief, the other indicating how strongly one holds that belief...
From a dude who believes a precursor doesn't have any meaning, and has faith that ignoring it and creating his own meaning will hide his gun lust... :)

My needle's off the charts... You know the one.
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Re: Combatting Religion

Postby bleurose » Tue Mar 27, 2012 1:32 pm

fennel,

I'd have no problem at all with some intellectual discussion and I would never be disrespectful in polite conversation - my mom (& the nuns :lol: ) taught me better than that. But the religious nutjobs these days (& yes, they are nutjobs, they've earned that adjective) have completely mistaken the biblical admonition to "not hide their light under a bushel basket" to mean that very-public-at-all-times-holier-than-thou posturing is the way to go. Instead of the much more likely interpretation that if you are a good person, others will know you by your life and your deeds, not how often you can have your kids talk disapprovingly to your adult friends or how many times in one annual Xmas letter you can refer to how you "have welcomed Jesus into your daily life". And Kenneth, I would never engage in "unpleasantness" had I asked about your activities and you simply told me where you were & what you were doing. After all, I don't get folks who like NASCAR or off-roading so if either of those were the answer, the conversation would rather quickly move on to some other topic as those topics don't interest me.

I was raised to understand that no one should know what your religion is or how you practice it, simply that others should realize that you lead a good life and that fact alone doesn't somehow make you "sanctified" and me not. So it is the constant bombardment, the in-my-face of the wingnuts that I find distasteful (at best - you don't want to know the worst of it :evil: )
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Re: Combatting Religion

Postby Igor » Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:09 pm

bleurose wrote:I was raised to understand that no one should know what your religion is or how you practice it


I think that many people share your view, or rather, the view that you should be private about your religion if you have one. Mocking religion seems to still be acceptable expression for some (not all) of those folks.

What you are saying is kind of "I don't care if someone is ______, I just wish they weren't so ______ in public" which some people consider offensive, depending on how the blanks are completed.
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Re: Combatting Religion

Postby bleurose » Wed Mar 28, 2012 12:57 pm

yup, Igor, that is pretty much exactly what I'm saying. I just edited out a long frustrated reply and then realized that I won't change anyone's mind on this topic. But yes, that is what I'm saying - i don't want to see it/hear about it from others. And I've reached the stage now where I define their "offense" as misplaced, thin-skinned and made up and that they really have no idea what it means to be truly offended.

And that ultimately, I couldn't care less if they are "offended" because their so-called offense is of their own making.
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