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Cultural Insensitivity

If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it fits here

Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Stu Levitan » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:10 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
Stu Levitan wrote:So Steb joins Peripat, and Bdog in calling for the city to adopt policies making it more difficult for Jews to participate in local government. Got it. Good to know.

Their casual anti-Semitism is exactly why the city needs policies like this.


That is one of the most fucked up things you've ever written. I expect an immediate apology because I NEVER, fucking NEVER singled out Judaism. If this the level of your maturity on the subject, then I have lost a great deal of respect in you.


Current city policy ensures that observant Jews will not have to choose between their religion and participating in local government. You want to rescind and reverse that policy. You openly advocate a policy which you know will disproportionately disadvantage Jews. And that's not anti-Semitic because ...?
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Meade » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:15 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:And that's not anti-Semitic because ...?

Because it's more specific than that. It's Jew-hate.
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:20 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:Current city policy ensures that observant Jews will not have to choose between their religion and participating in local government.


Since when did I single out Jews?

I guess you were hoping for a better response from folks after the OP, but since you're only ally seems to be Meade, playing the anti-Semite card is the next best option.
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Stu Levitan » Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:26 pm

Steb, the policy itself primarily protects Jews. You want to rescind and reverse the policy. The math is pretty simple.
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Huckleby » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:00 pm

Stu Levitan wrote: Current city policy ensures that observant Jews will not have to choose between their religion and participating in local government.


How can you defend the fact that there is such a policy protecting Jewish sensibilities, and no such policy for Muslims? Just saying "call your alderman if you don't like it" doesn't cut it.
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby david cohen » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:06 pm

I don't buy the anti-semitism argument. I see it more as ignorance. However, I know lots of folks who are much more sensitive about it than myself, so I can see where Stu is coming from. I remember the sweetest kindergarten teacher once asking my son "How do you celebrate Christmas?" He told her he celebrated Hannukah. She had never met a jewish family before. In a multi-cultural society, it's great to try to identify will all types of folks, but you can't expect everyone to do so. That's a lot different than hate. As the only Heeb in my little episcopal school class back in Virginia, I learned a lot about hate. What Stu is talking about isn't hate. Hate is "my daughter ain't going out with no Jew boy." If daddy only knew;)
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Stebben84 » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:14 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:Steb, the policy itself primarily protects Jews. You want to rescind and reverse the policy. The math is pretty simple.


First off, what Huck said. Second off, you're a hypocrite. Third, what an asinine correlation you are making. Because I don't think ANY religions deserves preferential treatment, I'm somehow an anti-Semite.

I look forward to the day that NO religion gets national holidays and NO religion gets preferential treatment. With that, I'm out. You and Meade can continue to keep making shit up. Seems to be working for you so far.
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Stu Levitan » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:16 pm

Huck, as I said, other than fasting, I am not aware of the restrictions, if any, on Muslims engaging in secular activity during Ramadan the way there are during the Jewish holidays. If there are, or there are for the other major Muslim holidays, certainly the same protections should apply.

BTW - it's not "Jewish sensibilities." It's Judaism. You know, like a real religion.
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby penquin » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:33 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:You know, like a real religion.


How is it decided which religions are "real" and which are not?
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby kurt_w » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:38 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:So Steb joins Peripat, and Bdog in calling for the city to adopt policies making it more difficult for Jews to participate in local government. Got it. Good to know.

Their casual anti-Semitism is exactly why the city needs policies like this.

Stu, I've always enjoyed reading your comments here but this post seems out of character and misguided. I'm sure you can support your opinions with arguments that don't unfairly ascribe bad motives to the large number of forons who disagree with you.
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby jjoyce » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:50 pm

To be clear, neither the Marquette Neighborhood Association nor the Tenant Resource Center are government agencies, right? So none of their activities have anything to do with participating in government, right? Maybe that point was made above, but I missed it. Nobody's making that argument, are they?

The two candidates in District 6 -- Marsha Rummel and Scott Thornton -- could have refused to hold the forum on that night, for the record. It takes a few entities to hold a candidate forum: The organization to sponsor it, the candidates to agree to the terms and the date, and the voters to actually attend.

As for the Tenant Resource Center, that organization is run by Brenda Konkel, an active blogger at Forward Lookout. She has told me on a number of occasions that she tries not to read TDPF, so she might not see the complaint here.
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Ducatista » Mon Apr 01, 2013 2:52 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:I think an important religious holiday is one for which congregants, to be considered observant, are obligated to attend services/refrain from secular work/practice particular and well-defined home ceremonies and feasts.

That was my immediate thought, followed by "duh."

I grew up Catholic, and I'm pretty sure the only time this would rule out for us would be Good Friday noon-3ish, as most churches have only one GF mass, and that's a biggie on the church calendar (arguably the biggest, though just about everybody prefers Easter mass for brevity and better hymns).
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Huckleby » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:12 pm

I think issue really comes down to numbers, and has nothing to do with religion. I see it as case of courtesy, words like "bigotry" or even "insensitivity" are way overheated.

There are schools in northern half of Wisconsin that close for deer hunting season. (at least that used to be true 30 years ago.) I think that is fine, and directly comparable.

The argument that I and others are making that all religions should be treated equally certainly make sense in principle. But no need to be rigid about it. If there are a lot Jewish people highly engaged in some activity, I say throw them a bone. If the Muslims request accommodation on some particular days, ok. If it all gets too unwieldy, then cancel all favoritism and stand on principle.
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Huckleby » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:18 pm

Ducatista wrote:one GF mass, and that's a biggie on the church calendar (arguably the biggest, though just about everybody prefers Easter mass for brevity and better hymns)


Bad hymns were the worst of it? What candy ass catholic service were you attending?

In my old-school church, good friday meant the "stations of the cross." You had to remain in kneeling position for 20 minutes at a time, if I remember correctly. The priest went to twelve different positions ("stations") around the church and dispensed endless incense and latin. It was interminable, hell on earth, you felt like you were getting a little piece of what Jesus got.
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Re: Cultural Insensitivity

Postby Ducatista » Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:37 pm

Huckleby wrote:Bad hymns were the worst of it?

I wrote:everybody prefers Easter mass for brevity and better hymns


And: catholic service? Poser.
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