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Russian "Zombie" Heroin

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Re: Russian "Zombie" Heroin

Postby john_titor » Tue Oct 01, 2013 5:11 pm

I had a theory about people that change the lyrics to existing songs. Prior to the Internet, I usually saw them sing these songs at weddings or corporate events. I then saw the pattern; re-writing and sometimes performing new lyrics live to an existing song is purely the domain of men aged 51 and above. The population tends to skew white as well.

Meade did this and proves the rule. I hold the The Traveler dear to my heart and treasure every post, but would be thoroughly entertained if Meade were in reality gozer without a source.
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Re: Russian "Zombie" Heroin

Postby gozer » Tue Oct 01, 2013 6:39 pm

john_titor wrote:I had a theory about people that change the lyrics to existing songs. Prior to the Internet, I usually saw them sing these songs at weddings or corporate events. I then saw the pattern; re-writing and sometimes performing new lyrics live to an existing song is purely the domain of men aged 51 and above. The population tends to skew white as well.

Meade did this and proves the rule. I hold the The Traveler dear to my heart and treasure every post, but would be thoroughly entertained if Meade were in reality gozer without a source.


u can sure say that again . . . oh, hey look:
heh heh heh
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Re: Russian "Zombie" Heroin

Postby john_titor » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:28 pm

As long as I have you engaged:

1. Terrence McKenna?
2. DMT; Hype or Hooray?
3. They can make bath salts and spice and crap like that, why don't they synthesize a mild buzz like nicotine?
4. Or if they are going to synthesize something stronger, why is it always rip your face off and use it as toilet-paper versus a clean safe all around high?
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Re: Russian "Zombie" Heroin

Postby gozer » Tue Oct 01, 2013 7:53 pm

john_titor wrote:As long as I have you engaged:

1. Terrence McKenna?
2. DMT; Hype or Hooray?
3. They can make bath salts and spice and crap like that, why don't they synthesize a mild buzz like nicotine?
4. Or if they are going to synthesize something stronger, why is it always rip your face off and use it as toilet-paper versus a clean safe all around high?


mc kenna's work on shamanism was interesting and there are several other authors like schultes, weil, davis, rudgely et al that helped expand a curiously-neglected field.

d m t doesn't do it for me coz i am a narcotics, tranquilliser & anticholinergic man aside from liking stimulants to boost my m and keep me from falling asleep, but some of its derivatives seem to be real aphrodisiacs (5-meo-d m t for example) which interests me because of the scientists who just say categorically that there is no such thing as an aphrodisiac. none the less, i enjoyed shulgin's works on tryptamines and other psychedelics immensely; his magnus opus on controlled substances is one of my 10 favourite english-language books.

with nicotine i think side effects would have been an issue so far; that receptor system also interacts with other things like fly-agaric mushrooms, belladonna, scopolamine and surgical muscle relaxants, so a dirty side effect profile for a nicotinic cholinergic agonist or what have u would not have the appeal of the real thing. yet.

dilaudid, nicomorphine, dihydromorphine, dextromoramide, trihexyphenidyl and the like prove that they can synthesise great drugs with some subtle effects too, so it depends on what they are looking for. i was long ago and far away prescribed the pharmaceutical that they based bath salts upon (pyrovalerone) and it was half shitty to begin with as a stimulant, but did keep my blood pressure in the zone, which was the intent.
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Re: Russian "Zombie" Heroin

Postby john_titor » Tue Oct 01, 2013 8:30 pm

Danke vetter!
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Re: Russian "Zombie" Heroin

Postby Cameron Connors » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:20 am

Krokodil is used in Russia and Eastern Europe because real heroin is scarce in those places, and, to an addict, a flesh-rotting heroin substitute synthesized from codeine and paint thinner is better than no heroin at all. But in the United States, heroin is not hard to find, and drug users here have no reason to resort to such desperate measures.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/1 ... _ever.html

Despite all the hype, there has been only one credible report of krokodil abuse in the United States. In an article published this fall on the website of the American Journal of Medicine, some St. Louis physicians reported treating a patient for krokodil abuse in 2012. But a couple weeks ago, the paper was temporarily removed from the AJM’s website; a spokeswoman for the hospital where the krokodil patient was allegedly treated told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch that the article had been “posted prematurely before it was fully reviewed.” The paper’s withdrawal came as no surprise to the science bloggers who had already criticized its methodological flaws, its inaccurate terminology, and its “terrible grammar.”
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Re: Russian "Zombie" Heroin

Postby green union terrace chair » Tue Dec 10, 2013 10:41 am

Cameron Connors wrote:
Krokodil is used in Russia and Eastern Europe because real heroin is scarce in those places, and, to an addict, a flesh-rotting heroin substitute synthesized from codeine and paint thinner is better than no heroin at all. But in the United States, heroin is not hard to find, and drug users here have no reason to resort to such desperate measures.


http://www.slate.com/blogs/crime/2013/1 ... _ever.html

I think the more credible danger is that, because it's cheaper to produce than heroin, it might be used as a substitute or to cut existing heroin sources. Since it has a similar high (from what I've read), heroin users have shot it without knowing they were being duped.
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Re: Russian "Zombie" Heroin

Postby Cameron Connors » Tue Dec 10, 2013 11:24 am

I don't think there is a credible danger with this stuff, that's the point.
There's no reason to stretch codeine to make it cheaper in he U.S., because there's so much codeine/opioids available in so many better forms, and you have to go through the trouble of messing with them to make this crap.
There's no reason to sell it to normal opioid customers, because if your customer dies in the U.S. you risk running a homicide/manslaughter charge already, why add more risk? Plus with the PR it gets, law enforcement would be even keener on tracking your zombie heroin producing self down right quick. Cops don't want their district to be the krokodil capitol of wherever, so dealers won't either.
There's no evidence of it even being in the U.S. It's not a thing here. It's a hand-wringing "Won't someone think of the children?!?!" issue that is fun to marvel at in disgust (oy, the nightmares from the pictures of it *shudder*) and befuddlement like so many insane ephemeral pop news stories & message board fodder.

As the Dispatch suggests, the only way that krokodil might become a thing is if the media keeps hyping it, thus leading curious people to try and acquire this famous new drug. Your move, journalists.


And even then I don't think it'd be a thing. It's probably received as much hype as any of the other "scary drug" stories, and still isn't an issue. We may yet lose a few deluded souls (or their skin/limbs *more shudders*) who want to make it themselves, but I highly doubt it will be a problem outside of isolated cases.
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Re: Russian "Zombie" Heroin

Postby penquin » Tue Dec 10, 2013 12:44 pm

If folks can't get the real stuff then they'll improvise, and often with bad results...happens over&over&over again.

When booze was banned, bathtub gin became popular. And often times folks went blind from drinking the homemade stuff. Because cocaine is illegal, meth became popular. And blue crystal causes far more damage (to the user and society) than the white powder. Due to the increased crackdown on cannabis, synthetic weed started coming into the country. And people have died from smoking the fake stuff, something that has never happened from toking the all-natural plant.

Since heroin is prohibited, nobody should be surprised that users are facing adverse side-effects from the cheap&dirty pseudo-smack being made.
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