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Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

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Re: Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

Postby Uncle_Leaver » Mon Aug 16, 2010 10:00 pm

Petro wrote:It doesn't work like that.

You're right. I left out the word coffee. Shitty coffee.

I'll spare you the explanation, as you're seemingly opposed to verbosity.

I'm all about verbosity, when it's merited. I just think it's hilarious people are going on and on about bandwidth, etc. when there are clearly far more enormous (not to mention obvious) pitfalls involved in a stupid arrangement like this. Just seems like a "no brainer" to me, and I absolutely hate that fucking term. But if the shit fits ...

You get hassled and ultimately cleared, but it certainly isn't anything you'd intentionally want to experience.

Precisely my point. But I appreciate you sharing your expertise on the matter. Ahem ...
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Re: Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

Postby Petro » Mon Aug 16, 2010 11:18 pm

Uncle_Leaver wrote:I'm all about verbosity, when it's merited. I just think it's hilarious people are going on and on about bandwidth, etc. when there are clearly far more enormous (not to mention obvious) pitfalls involved in a stupid arrangement like this. Just seems like a "no brainer" to me, and I absolutely hate that fucking term. But if the shit fits ...


I'm in complete agreement. But let's face it. It's a forum, we're not curing cancer here. The entire exercise is just mental masturbation for the respective posters to amuse themselves - myself included.

I don't let strangers touch my computer (especially those miserable schmucks from Charter/AT&T/TDS/Comcast/etc), let alone give them a tap into my network for the occasional yuppie food stamp.

That being said, there's more to linking someone's activity on a given website than just the originating IP address. Presuming that you'd be mistakenly nabbed and ultimately prosecuted without any defense simply because your neighbor used your connection is quite the reach. I'd be far more concerned with the idea of having to deal with DMCA takedown notices and/or account suspensions because of the neighbor than anything else.

So, we're ultimately in agreement while doing our best to butt heads while doing so. I love the internet.
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Re: Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

Postby Shorty » Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:25 am

barney wrote:Actually, if he did change the password on her, she could do a hard factory reset. (Obviously, she would have to have physical possession of the router, which I assume she would.)

You are right, there is a reset button on my router. I was wrong when I said if he changed her password she would need to contact her provider.

ArturoBandini wrote:I thought that most routers only allow change of admin-level settings (e.g. password) with a physical ethernet connection. There were a few models released awhile ago that allowed remote administration, but I remember a hubbub in the geek community. These settings can usually be disabled.

With my Netgear WNR3500L router any PC on the wifi network can change admin-level settings. You don't need to have a wired connection to it. I assumed all wifi routers are like that but I don't know.

ArturoBandini wrote:If the internet service is with Charter, then multi-dwelling sharing is expressly prohibited in the residential acceptable use agreement:
http://www.charter.com/Visitors/Policies.aspx?Policy=6

To me their acceptable use agreement is vague and does not say multi-dwelling sharing is expressly prohibited. It only says Charter is not responsible for anything a third party user does with the internet access (such as illegal downloads?). But I wouldn't think Charter is responsible for anything the primary customer does anyway, so this seems meaningless.

I don't see anything from Charter saying it's illegal to share wi-fi because I think the laws are vague about this. I searched the internet and couldn't find any clear law or cases saying it is illegal to share wi-fi with neighbors. Some apartments offer wi-fi to all their residents. If landlords can do that, why can't neighbors agree to share wi-fi?

Regarding legal implications when you share wifi and the neighbor does something illegal, I couldn't find a clear US law or case about this either. But in 2008 Germany ruled that the Wifi lender is not responsible for copyright violations:

http://torrentfreak.com/victims-of-wifi ... ds-080709/
Victims of WiFi Theft Not Responsible For Illegal Uploads
Written by enigmax on July 09, 2008
"A German court has ruled that Internet users operating a WiFi router are not responsible if others use their equipment to infringe copyright on P2P networks."

What if a person goes to an internet cafe or library and uses that public wifi for illegal downloads? Is the internet cafe or library liable? I would think not. Likewise, I would think a person is not responsible for anything their neighbors do in with their residential wifi in an apt, condo or housing neighborhood. But I would rather play it safe and not share wifi.
Last edited by Shorty on Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:55 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

Postby ArturoBandini » Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:37 am

Shorty - I mostly agree with the above. In the case of the Charter Acceptable Use Agreement, it's not a legal/criminal issue, it's a contract issue. The agreement states that the service is intended for single-unit residential dwellings (house, apt, flat, condo). Now, one is free to decide if they want to voluntarily break the user agreement, which isn't illegal - it just might result in termination of service from Charter. I don't know how likely that would be in reality.

The landlord at an apartment complex or the owner of Borders probably have commercial internet service agreements, not residential (someone please correct me if I'm wrong). Their agreements likely have provisions for sharing the network with customers and tenants, and I'd wager that they pay more for their connection than does the average residential customer.
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Re: Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

Postby markkay » Wed Aug 18, 2010 10:10 am

Thanks for the input! She agreed to share the wireless network, gave the guy her password, then thought the better of it and is now backing out. He never did give her $20 for the first month, which may be her main reason for backing out. She's going to change her password so he doesn't have access.
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Re: Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

Postby joshallen » Thu May 05, 2011 4:03 am

sharing a home network is incredibly dangerous. network sniffing seems to me the most apparent and malicious danger. if you're not familiar with the term look it up (an example of a program that executes such things would be ettercap). one example of this would be the intruding computer replicates the certificate from the router and sends it to computers using said router. the computers not knowing any better begin sending all of their information first to the attacking computer which in turn relays it to the router and all the functionality is maintained as though you were regularly surfing the web. However, the intercepting computer can then log all the information that passes through it including passwords, credit card numbers or any other sensitive information. Though SSL encryption and the hashing passwords makes it a bit more difficult to decipher and utilize the information it does not make it impossible. hashing (basically running your password through an algorithm with a constantly variable result) can be reversed, though the result is always variable due to the nature of the algorithm there are databases out there that it can be compared to narrowing it down to a workable number of possibilities. key trackers, trojans, network sniffing (i.e. MITM attacks, ARP attacks.) I'm no computer whiz by any stretch of the imagination but I know how to execute all of the above. i guess you could say that, i, like many others, know just enough to be dangerous. i have not done so except at home on my own network to gain a better understanding of its capability and functionality. with a little extra knowhow even the SSL encryption can be deciphered. most public wi-fi spots would quickly detect this sort of deception (network sniffing) but if you don't have the security at home you would never know.

good luck and good night

josh
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Re: Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

Postby Beaver » Thu May 05, 2011 10:56 am

Lock Down Your Wi-Fi or the FBI Might Come Knocking

http://news.yahoo.com/s/pcworld/2011042 ... meknocking

"A New York man learned the hard way that leaving your wireless router open to the general public can have some very negative consequences, and that the authorities tend to act first and ask questions second. You might think it's no big deal to share your wireless network with your neighbors. But that altruism can bite you in the butt when a less scrupulous neighbor, or a random stranger connects to the wireless network and uses it for illegal activity. As far as the authorities are concerned, that illegal activity originates from your wireless router, so you are the primary suspect. So, what happened? Well, this guy left his home Wi-Fi network unprotected, and a slimy neighbor piggy-backed on his "free" wireless network to access thousands of child pornography images. He's not the first to fall victim to this scenario, and, unfortunately, he won't be the last."
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Re: Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

Postby lambeau85leap » Mon Aug 22, 2011 12:31 pm

There is definitely a danger in sharing wireless internet. If the neighbor has any type of computer background they can access information you don't want them to. Then again, if they have a computer background and you don't, they can likely access your wireless internet without your permission/password anyway. Like others have said, bandwidth problems (a real possibility if they use the internet much or have a spouse/family who uses it) and familiarity with the neighbor are two important issues. I wouldn't do it personally but that is up to how the person feels about the neighbor.
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Re: Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

Postby Petro » Sun Sep 11, 2011 7:42 pm

lambeau85leap wrote:Then again, if they have a computer background and you don't, they can likely access your wireless internet without your permission/password anyway.


WEP only serves to keep honest people out. Otherwise, it's trivially easy to crack and the process is well documented with freely available tools.

WPA2 is much, much more of a hassle. Most realistic options involve some sort of brute-force attack, whether it be dictionary, rainbow tables or schmancy esoteric FPGA solutions using pricey cards and custom software. Either way, WPA2 with a high-entropy passphrase will keep people out unless you've really pissed off the wrong nerd.
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Re: Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

Postby Alvisbryant » Fri Sep 30, 2011 7:22 am

it is dangerous if the wireless network is shared by u with ur neighbour..u will pay for what u have not done..means if ur neighbour is doing something wrong..u will pay for that
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Re: Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

Postby fennel » Fri Sep 30, 2011 8:35 pm

Alvisbryant wrote:it is dangerous if the wireless network is shared by u with ur neighbour..u will pay for what u have not done..means if ur neighbour is doing something wrong..u will pay for that

thasilly! wty tt?
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Re: Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

Postby infratactix » Fri Jan 06, 2012 12:58 pm

It really doesn't even matter since the issue is not whether it's technically possible for two people to share the same connection and how to keep it secure; we all know that's possible - even to keep the connections completely separated from client all the way down to the actual address translation as the traffic leaves the router.

The question posed is whether it's a good idea, and the answer isn't even a technical one.

The answer is no, why? Because asking to share someone's internet connection is the same as asking them to use their landline, or cell phone, or even their cable or electrical service. You want the service, you either go get it free at the library or you get your own account; plain and simple.

Would you tolerate someone asking to use your car all the time so long as they paid for the gas they use? "Mr. Neighbor, we don't have indoor plumbing, can my family come over and use your toilets if we pay you $20/mo?"

Sounds stupid now doesn't it?
anyway... in the end, why pay $20 when you can pay $15????
http://www.attsavings.com/madison-att-w ... -deal.html
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Re: Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

Postby Petro » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:12 pm

infratactix wrote:The answer is no, why? Because asking to share someone's internet connection is the same as asking them to use their landline, or cell phone, or even their cable or electrical service. You want the service, you either go get it free at the library or you get your own account; plain and simple.

Would you tolerate someone asking to use your car all the time so long as they paid for the gas they use? "Mr. Neighbor, we don't have indoor plumbing, can my family come over and use your toilets if we pay you $20/mo?"

Sounds stupid now doesn't it?


That'd be fine if sharing an internet connection deprived you of the use of said connection or somehow incurred a greater cost from the provider or even left you with a messy bathroom.

It doesn't, and you're about as persuasive as two-week old shellfish.

Instead, the only real counterargument is liability, which has already been addressed, dear spammer.

So, I reverse my earlier stance and now proclaim that, really it's a great idea if you trust the person.

PS: I previously had AT&T DSL and it was alright, aside from the pathetically low bandwidth cap and the inability to get ahold of anyone that'd actually do anything when the port in the local CO shit the bed. (10 day outage. 10 days. All because the twits in customer service kept punting the ticket between themselves. It was fixed the same day once I managed to get someone to look at it locally.)
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Re: Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

Postby fennel » Tue Jan 10, 2012 8:27 pm

Sharing wireless is practically a patriotic duty, because otherwise we'll never catch up with Romania.

BTW, I had a similar experience with AT&T. I needed the exterior phone line moved, but because I have DSL, they insisted I could only talk with the modem software help folks. After about 14 hours of phone time, over 2 months, I called in with a false report that the exterior phone line was down. When the repair person showed up, I explained what I needed. She sighed and said she wasn't surprised, moved the line, and charged me nothing.
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Re: Dangers of sharing wireless network with neighbor?

Postby Lily » Tue Jan 10, 2012 9:16 pm

Uncle_Leaver wrote:Wow ... a lot of words wasted on this thread.

Here's your answer: Incredibly bad idea. Period.


I agree. Just say no, thank you. Keep your wifi password to yourself. You don't have to give a reason. If you want free wifi, move to an apartment that provides it.
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