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Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

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Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

Postby Beaver » Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:14 pm

This doesn't sound good. A Dutch study says Wifi and cellular signals in cities are killing our trees. Makes me wonder what the signals are doing to humans.

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/wi-f...#ixzz162jFJdtz
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Re: Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

Postby c02 » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:03 pm

Or not.

Telegraph Article

One, even the scientists who did this research say there’s nothing to worry about.


Not convinced?

Researchers Backtrack

Based on the information now available can not be concluded that the WiFi radio signals leads to damage to trees or other plants.


Not saying there may not be issues but the original researchers even want more research before concluding wifi is the new 2nd hand smoke.
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Re: Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

Postby green union terrace chair » Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:50 pm

I don't need no citations to tell you that's stupid.
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Re: Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

Postby Beaver » Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:14 pm

OK good to know cellular and wifi may not be killing trees.
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Re: Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

Postby Michael Patrick » Thu Nov 25, 2010 5:12 am

I think Beavers kill more trees than WiFi does...
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Re: Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

Postby narcoleptish » Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:50 pm

My friend contracted with Verizon to put a cell antenna on the roof of his apartment building downtown. It was placed just above a rooftop patio area that had several potted pine trees around the edges. Within two weeks the two trees nearest the antenna were dead. He had them move the antenna further away from the patio. The technicians that moved it questioned why it was placed that close to the patio in the first place.

I use a cell phone and wifi but I try to be moderate in my use, especially the cell phone. If I talked on my original Nokia for more than 10 minutes without switching ears, the phone and the side of my head would heat up considerably. Nice.

Anyone who doesn't believe that the money generated by cellular communications trumps public health, in the eyes of big business, is a fool. I'm not saying we're all going to die from it, I just think people need to have more common sense when choosing their exposure to something that's probably not completely harmless, and less blind faith that Motorola would never sell you something that could hurt you.
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Re: Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

Postby ouroborus4 » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:09 pm

I think with the communications infrastructure built up as much as it is and so heavily relied upon, it would be nearly impossible to reverse course even if it was proven without a doubt to be severely detrimental to health. I saw this article on yahoo about a week ago, which makes you stop and think:

http://health.yahoo.net/rodale/WH/is-your-health-on-the-line

I wonder at what point health will finally trump convenience.
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Re: Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

Postby ilikebeans » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:25 pm

narcoleptish wrote:My friend contracted with Verizon to put a cell antenna on the roof of his apartment building downtown. It was placed just above a rooftop patio area that had several potted pine trees around the edges. Within two weeks the two trees nearest the antenna were dead.

I have no problem at all believing that the amount of radiation within close proximity to a cell antenna would kill plants. Question is, of course, how close is too close? I didn't search exhaustively on this, but I did find an article from the American Cancer Society:

When cellular antennas are mounted on rooftops, it is possible that a person on the roof could be exposed to RF levels greater than those typically encountered on the ground. But even then, exposure levels approaching or exceeding the FCC safety guidelines are only likely to be found very close to and directly in front of the antennas. If this is the case, access to these areas should be limited.

narcoleptish wrote:I use a cell phone and wifi but I try to be moderate in my use, especially the cell phone. If I talked on my original Nokia for more than 10 minutes without switching ears, the phone and the side of my head would heat up considerably. Nice.

I would attribute that mostly to the battery heating up from constant use. However, there is this recent story:

FCC Only Tested Cell Phone Radiation in Holsters, Not Pockets

Back in 2001, the FCC concluded that any phone emitting 1.6 watts of radio-frequency energy or less was safe for public use. However, the FCC came to that conclusion only after testing phones that were contained in holsters. It is plausible, then, that 1.6 watts is okay from an inch away, but that it's hazardous from a shorter distance.

I guess I should be happy that more friends communicate through texting these days, eh?

I've also been using the ear buds + mic that comes with the iPhone for most home calls. Not only does it keep the phone away from my head (although still in my pocket and close to the body), but it allows me to keep my hands free to, say, do dishes on longer calls.
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Re: Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

Postby Beaver » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:13 pm

ouroborus4 wrote:I saw this article on yahoo about a week ago, which makes you stop and think:
http://health.yahoo.net/rodale/WH/is-your-health-on-the-line


So the Women's Health article does say WiFi can cause deadly diseases but doesn't cite sources. Who are we to believe? My neighbor has a Wifi router on constantly and the signal is strong in my place.

"Your neighborhood coffee shop's wireless Internet access may often seem like a godsend, but the router that's needed to provide the service is continuously emitting high levels of RF (up to 200 feet out), and that constant exposure has been linked to deadly diseases. "If the whole body is radiated by a router's RF emissions, the greatest concern is cancer, especially leukemia," says Carpenter. Also, be aware of your at-home router and any plug-in wireless USB cards you often use."
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Re: Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

Postby narcoleptish » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:20 pm

ilikebeans wrote:
narcoleptish wrote:I use a cell phone and wifi but I try to be moderate in my use, especially the cell phone. If I talked on my original Nokia for more than 10 minutes without switching ears, the phone and the side of my head would heat up considerably. Nice.

I would attribute that mostly to the battery heating up from constant use.


I hope you're right, cuz that was in the days before anyone questioned the safety and I my share of "heated" conversations.

Proximity definitely was an issue with my friends trees, I just thought it was an apt story for the thread.

Still, there's people who will just laugh at you when this subject comes up. I'm baffled by the absolute intolerance some have for the idea that the marketplace might be putting something out there that could possibly be unsafe. It's not like it hasn't happened before:

Asbestos was a miracle material.
Cigarettes?
Nothing goes on smoother than lead-based paint.
Raw eggs! Hell, 30 years ago we were all drinking raw eggs. Sam Monella was my cousins neighbor. Sam wouldn't hurt anybody!
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Re: Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

Postby rabble » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:17 pm

narcoleptish wrote:Raw eggs! Hell, 30 years ago we were all drinking raw eggs. Sam Monella was my cousins neighbor. Sam wouldn't hurt anybody!

In fairness to all of us old egg drinkers, Salmonella wasn't a really big problem in eggs back then.
Until the early 1970s, S. Gallinarum and S. Pullorum were common in the UK poultry flock. These serovars cause invasive disease such as typhoid and pullorum in hens and fowl, respectively, but only rarely cause illness in humans (Bullis 1977). Culling of seropositive hens, followed by vaccination, resulted in the virtual eradication of these diseases in the UK and US by the mid-1970s (Baumler et al. 2000). It has been postulated that the eradication of these bacteria left a niche that was filled by the antigenically similar S. Enteritidis. Up until this time, S. Enteritidis had been found occasionally in poultry and eggs but had caused only a small number of cases in humans.


I apologize for nitpicking. Sometimes I just can't help it. The rest of your examples are spot on.
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Re: Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

Postby wallrock » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:23 pm

WiFi does not emit a high level of RF, or at least not high compared to other wireless devices. A typical router emits a signal of 100 mW, compared with a 3G UMTS phone's max power output of 2W. An approximate generalization that I've heard bandied about is a full day in proximity to a WiFi router is the equivalent of a 20-minute cell phone call.
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Re: Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

Postby narcoleptish » Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:13 pm

rabble wrote:
I apologize for nitpicking. Sometimes I just can't help it.


Listen kid, I'm here all week and this material's gotta last me. You do your act and I'll do mine and Friday night I'll buy ya a fish fry, okay?

wallrock wrote: An approximate generalization that I've heard bandied about is a full day in proximity to a WiFi router is the equivalent of a 20-minute cell phone call.


Great, I try to make it a point to never have a cell call longer than 10 minutes, yet my router has been on for the last 3 years straight. If my house receives signals from 4 of my neighbors as well, does that work out to a 100 minute phone call? Really never thought much about the wifi, and only in the last year realized that the cordless land lines also emit. The router used to sit on a table just above my dog's bed. My dog died of cancer a year ago.

I hate all this shit.
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Re: Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

Postby Bad Gradger » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:21 pm

There was a great article in the October issue of Scientific American about how cell phones cannot possibly be causing cancer. It's a question of physics:
Cell phones cannot cause cancer, because they do not emit enough energy to break the molecular bonds inside cells.... [K]nown carcinogens such as x-rays, gamma rays and UV rays have energies greater than 480 kilojoules per mole (kJ/mole), which is enough to break chemical bonds. Green-light photons hold 240 kJ/mole of energy.... A cell phone generates radiation of less than 0.001 kJ/mole. That is 480,000 times weaker than UV rays and 240,000 times weaker than green light!

How can cell phones kill plants when the photons they emit are 1/240,000th as energetic as the green light photons they specifically evolved to absorb?
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Re: Wifi and cellular signals killing our trees

Postby ArturoBandini » Mon Dec 06, 2010 11:49 pm

Thanks, Bad Gradger, and thanks, quantum physics.

But wait - that WiFi router has a green LED on it blinking all the time! Your link says those photons have 240,000 times more energy than the WiFi/cell/phone photons! Dogs and humans aren't designed to absorb green light like plants.
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