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Outing of that reddit guy

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Re: Outing of that reddit guy

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:42 am

Henry Vilas wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:I think this guy would have a hard time in court trying to defend those.
Exactly what would he have to defend in court? His right to free speech? They are all disgusting or offensive topics, but barring violations of the law, I'm not sure why he should have to defend himself in court over them.

The First Amendment's protection of free speech only applies to government efforts to suppress said speech. He worked for a private company. The First does not apply.



True, but I don't believe an employer (barring contractual restrictions, which have not been mentioned in any article) has the right to limit speech outside of work.
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Re: Outing of that reddit guy

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Oct 16, 2012 11:44 am

Employers don't need a reason to fire employees in right to work states.
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Re: Outing of that reddit guy

Postby Michael Patrick » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:22 pm

donges wrote:And here is the continuing saga where he loses his job after being outed.


Dude worked for a payday loan outfit. I wouldn't have guessed they had any morals.
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Re: Outing of that reddit guy

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Oct 16, 2012 12:26 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Employers don't need a reason to fire employees in right to work states.


Thanks Henry, we got that covered already. Try and keep up.
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Re: Outing of that reddit guy

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:13 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Employers don't need a reason to fire employees in right to work states.


Thanks Henry, we got that covered already. Try and keep up.

Then why did you ignore that fact?
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Re: Outing of that reddit guy

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Oct 16, 2012 1:46 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Henry Vilas wrote:Employers don't need a reason to fire employees in right to work states.


Thanks Henry, we got that covered already. Try and keep up.

Then why did you ignore that fact?



pretty sure I reiterated that fact 2-3 times after wack wack brought it up.

can't speak for Stebben84 but my discussion on the courts and whether the super troll would have to defend his statements in court was more theoretical. In a at will state there clearly wouldn't be a court case, on the other hand in a non-at will state, my point was that he shouldn't have to defend his non-work related statements to contest his firing.
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Re: Outing of that reddit guy

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 3:24 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:True, but I don't believe an employer (barring contractual restrictions, which have not been mentioned in any article) has the right to limit speech outside of work.


He never limited his speech outside of work. They guy was free to say what he wanted. He just had to pay the consequences. I don't think firing him amounts to discrimination because his actions were voluntary. Then again, this deals with right to work issues.

I did look a bit more into At-will-employment and it sure gets complicated. There seem to be a lot of provisions and exceptions that are different all over the place.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/At-will_employment

For what it's worth, he does go on reddit to defend himself. It's an interesting back and forth, pro and con.

http://www.reddit.com/r/pointandclick/c ... pe/c6mlq3u
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Re: Outing of that reddit guy

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:14 pm

Stebben84 wrote:They guy was free to say what he wanted. He just had to pay the consequences. I don't think firing him amounts to discrimination because his actions were voluntary.


So you believe the standard should be that if your actions outside of work offend your employer or co-workers, they can use that as a grounds to fire you?
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Re: Outing of that reddit guy

Postby Stebben84 » Tue Oct 16, 2012 4:22 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:
Stebben84 wrote:They guy was free to say what he wanted. He just had to pay the consequences. I don't think firing him amounts to discrimination because his actions were voluntary.


So you believe the standard should be that if your actions outside of work offend your employer or co-workers, they can use that as a grounds to fire you?


I can't say that across the board, but in this case, quite possibly yes.

I know this is an extreme case, but do you think it would be ok for an employer to fire someone if they discovered they were a grand wizard in the KKK. The employer has to look at the situation and how those issued revealed could affect the workplace. I'll tell you one thing, shit would be real fucked up at my job if my co-worker was outed as such.

I don't think this is a yes or no situation. Sometimes firing someone isn't. If someone made a mistake at work that was minor and got fired, is THAT ok. What if someone forgot to replace the toilet paper in the bathroom and got fired. Is THAT ok. It's work related, so it should be ok, but I'll hope you agree that it's not.
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Re: Outing of that reddit guy

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:57 am

Stebben84 wrote:I can't say that across the board, but in this case, quite possibly yes.

I know this is an extreme case, but do you think it would be ok for an employer to fire someone if they discovered they were a grand wizard in the KKK. The employer has to look at the situation and how those issued revealed could affect the workplace. I'll tell you one thing, shit would be real fucked up at my job if my co-worker was outed as such.

I don't think this is a yes or no situation. Sometimes firing someone isn't. If someone made a mistake at work that was minor and got fired, is THAT ok. What if someone forgot to replace the toilet paper in the bathroom and got fired. Is THAT ok. It's work related, so it should be ok, but I'll hope you agree that it's not.


I can't see any employer firing someone for a minor mistake at work. Perhaps if there was a documented history of similar issues or they were a new employee who was borderline for other reasons, it might be justified, but forgetting the TP once (or other small offences)? Not likely, and as you stated, not OK.

Now if the employer found out they had the grand wizard of the KKK working for them, i agree it would be awkward (and real fucked up) but if his behavior on the job isn't reflective of his racist beliefs, I'm not sure it's justifiable to firing him based on that. It seems to imply that a person with offensive beliefs doesn't have a right to hold a job. I just think as long he isn't shoving his beliefs in his co-workers faces, what he does outside of work is his own issue. In fact if a company found out and decided to make an issue of it, the company and not the racist bastard would be responsible for shoving it in his co-workers face.

Put it another way, do you think you have never worked with someone whom unknown to you, held an opinion you were offended by? For that matter do you have opinions you don't discuss at work because you know someone would be offended?

Both in the hypothetical KKK case, and in the Reddit case, the individual in question did not disclose their off hours behavior, most likely because they knew their would be issues with their employer. If the employer choose to make the off hours behavior an issue, isn't that the employer causing the workplace to be uncomfortable?
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Re: Outing of that reddit guy

Postby Stebben84 » Wed Oct 17, 2012 12:05 pm

Francis Di Domizio wrote:Both in the hypothetical KKK case, and in the Reddit case, the individual in question did not disclose their off hours behavior, most likely because they knew their would be issues with their employer.


True and what they don't know can't hurt you. I fully agree. The problem is that the guy was outed and whether he or his employer liked it or not, the cat was out of the bag. For me, it's about the attention this company might have received and the backlash from having this guy as their employee. Is that fair. I don't know, but it's a reality that the employer had to think about. It has to do not only with what this guy did, but the publicity it generated. Had the employer found out discretely he may have acted very differently.

If anyone is at fault it is Gawker and the media circus.
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Re: Outing of that reddit guy

Postby Francis Di Domizio » Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:49 pm

Stebben84 wrote:
Francis Di Domizio wrote:Both in the hypothetical KKK case, and in the Reddit case, the individual in question did not disclose their off hours behavior, most likely because they knew their would be issues with their employer.


True and what they don't know can't hurt you. I fully agree. The problem is that the guy was outed and whether he or his employer liked it or not, the cat was out of the bag. For me, it's about the attention this company might have received and the backlash from having this guy as their employee. Is that fair. I don't know, but it's a reality that the employer had to think about. It has to do not only with what this guy did, but the publicity it generated. Had the employer found out discretely he may have acted very differently.

If anyone is at fault it is Gawker and the media circus.


I'm cool with blaming Gawker, I'm not sure outing anonymously made comments is the job of the media. Had he known that his activities would be linked to his real name, he clearly wouldn't have done most of what he did. Not sure why the media has the right to decided to make his actions no longer anonymous.

But I do question whether any clients would have known he worked for a company they did business with. The company name wasn't mentioned in the article and "Financial Services" is a pretty broad term. the atmosphere might have changed in the last 10 years, but I'd be shocked if that many people in his work circle even know what reddit is.
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Re: Outing of that reddit guy

Postby pjbogart » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:28 pm

Commonly referred to "protected classes" are race, sex, religion, ethnicity, country of origin, age, disability and sexual orientation (in some States).

An inexhaustive list of non-protected classes includes fuckwads, douches, racists, assholes, sexists, pedophiles, morons, cunts, Bon Jovi fans, people who drink Bud Light and Dave Blaska.

I hope that clears things up.
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Re: Outing of that reddit guy

Postby bdog » Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:36 pm

pjbogart wrote:I hope that clears things up.

Is it safe?
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