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Garrison Keillor waxes idiotic

If it doesn't fit anywhere else, it fits here

Postby ShaneDog » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:11 pm

I grew up Missouri Synod Lutheran and I don't ever remember them bad-mouthing evolution or really saying anything about evolution at all. The church I went to really let science be and focused more on spiritual matters. I don't know if the 6000-year-old thing is the "official" church doctrine but from personal experience I know that at least the church I grew up in Mount Olive Lutheran in Madison (Missouri Synod) never ever mentioned that or taught that to anyone.
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Postby Henry Vilas » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:32 pm

Here is what the official site of Missouri Synod says about evolution.
All that we as Christians know about the origin of the creation has been revealed to us in the Scriptures, and most specifically, in the Genesis texts. While these texts do not answer (nor were they written to answer) all of the various scientific questions that we as moderns might wish to bring to them, they are very clear about the instantaneous creation out of nothing of man as a creature fully and completely in the image of his Creator.
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Postby Fat.The.Gangster » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:39 pm

roadkill bill wrote:For one thing, I always assumed Keillor was a Lutheran, like the prototypical Minnesotan he writes about.


Keillor was raised as part of the Plymouth Brethern, a conservative evangelical church, at least according to this interview:

http://brethrennews.blogspot.com/2005/0 ... mouth.html
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Postby ShaneDog » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:40 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:Here is what the official site of Missouri Synod says about evolution.
All that we as Christians know about the origin of the creation has been revealed to us in the Scriptures, and most specifically, in the Genesis texts. While these texts do not answer (nor were they written to answer) all of the various scientific questions that we as moderns might wish to bring to them, they are very clear about the instantaneous creation out of nothing of man as a creature fully and completely in the image of his Creator.

Ok, well in 18 years of bible school or whatever they never mentioned that once that I can remember.
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Postby Ryanwiz » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:46 pm

OH GASP! A guy who makes fun of everyone and everything mentions gay people and people freak out. Whatever.

Hey, generally I find the guy quite funny. I love his writing and his perspective on things. While the article wasn't really funny, nor really that good in general, it doesn't warrant such a reaction. Who the hell really cares what he thinks anyways?

It's entertainment...not policy.
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Postby Fat.The.Gangster » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:50 pm

Henry Vilas wrote: While these texts do not answer (nor were they written to answer) all of the various scientific questions that we as moderns might wish to bring to them, they are very clear about the instantaneous creation out of nothing of man as a creature fully and completely in the image of his Creator.


I do not want to criticize anyone's meaning system here, but I find the "we as moderns" line so fucking hilarious it hurts my sides. Seriously, what a cop-out. As if discovering an idea about the origins of the universe is somehow invalid because it didn't occur to someone two-thousand year's ago. Awesome.

I also enjoy the "they are very clear about the instantaneous creation out of nothing" passage. The instructions on a box of cereal are more descriptive about the origins of my breakfast than Genesis is about the origins of the universe.
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Postby Fat.The.Gangster » Thu Mar 15, 2007 12:59 pm

Ryanwiz wrote: Hey, generally I find the guy quite funny. I love his writing and his perspective on things.



Of course, someone who finds Garrison "listen to me talk about old people driving for the zillionth time" Keillor funny and insightful may not be the voice of reason in this instance. Maybe someone who is not an apologist can understand that "jokes" (if that's what it was and not a personal reflection of his real feelings), like the kind Keillor made here and that Ann Coulter attempted a few weeks ago, only serve to reinforce negative stereotypes about homosexuals that just propogate hatred and intolerance. I mean, besides that, you're right on.
Last edited by Fat.The.Gangster on Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby mifflander » Thu Mar 15, 2007 1:40 pm

I spent K-10th grade in Wisconsin Evengelical Lutheran Synod schools. And I certainly heard many times over how wrong evolution theory was. Creationism was where it was at for those folks.

I even had numerous teachers tell me that even other Christians (Catholics, Methodists, etc.) weren't going to heaven because they didn't adhere to the strict teachings of the Lutheran church. As a child I always imagined heaven as this very empty place while hell was sure to be bursting at the seams.

This week, in fact, I attended a family funeral at my old hometown WELS church. My wife who was raised Roman Catholic, but is now an atheist, actually commented how she was glad she was raised in the relatively more relaxed atmosphere of the Catholic church rather than the dogmatic harshness of the Lutheran church I was brought up in. The pastor spent probably 2 minutes reminiscing about the deceased and the rest of the time throwing down the fire and brimstone. It was so devoid of any type of humanity or sympathy I was utterly disgusted. But not surprised.
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Postby Chuck_Schick » Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:03 pm

I rarely do this, but ...

mifflander wrote:My wife who was raised Roman Catholic, but is now an atheist, actually commented how she was glad she was raised in the relatively more relaxed atmosphere of the Catholic church rather than the dogmatic harshness of the Lutheran church I was brought up in.

:!:
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Postby destryscholes » Thu Mar 15, 2007 4:23 pm

Fat.The.Gangster wrote:... "jokes" (if that's what it was and not a personal reflection of his real feelings), like the kind Keillor made here and that Ann Coulter attempted a few weeks ago, only serve to reinforce negative stereotypes about homosexuals that just propogate hatred and intolerance. I mean, besides that, you're right on.

Fat.The.Gangster wrote:Yes, it is a stretch to call Keillor's article gay bashing, which is why no one did you slack pinhead. Maybe if you spent more time reading the posts and less time crafting reactionary tripe you might offer a little more to the quality of the discussion or learn something.

As to your words of advice, words well heeded, mate.

Forgive my error, Fat. Your finely nuanced point is what, that Keillor's image of "stereotypical" gay men, while not gay bashing, promotes hatred and intolerance and you're offended? Sorry for your hurt feelings, but there was nothing hateful in his article and his joke had nothing of the intent of Ann Coulter's.
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Martin Luther was complex, man...

Postby Marvell » Thu Mar 15, 2007 5:45 pm

And well you might emoticon, Chuck.

But it's actually not such a stretch - if you recall, Martin Luther himself was a bit of buzz stomper.

Except where it came to divorcing your wife and letting the clergy marry. Then he's all (to quote the Sugar Hill Gang), "whooooo-eeeeeee!"

Party on, Martin!
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Postby Ryanwiz » Fri Mar 16, 2007 9:00 am

Fat.The.Gangster wrote:
Ryanwiz wrote: Hey, generally I find the guy quite funny. I love his writing and his perspective on things.



Of course, someone who finds Garrison "listen to me talk about old people driving for the zillionth time" Keillor funny and insightful may not be the voice of reason in this instance. Maybe someone who is not an apologist can understand that "jokes" (if that's what it was and not a personal reflection of his real feelings), like the kind Keillor made here and that Ann Coulter attempted a few weeks ago, only serve to reinforce negative stereotypes about homosexuals that just propogate hatred and intolerance. I mean, besides that, you're right on.



When are jokes *not* derived, at least partially, from personal feelings? So he doesn't like complicated familial situations? I'd say that he'd have the personal experience to back that up....being that he has, as you've said, had a few failed marriages of his own.

Are you seriously comparing Keillor's "humor" to Coulter's "humor"? Also....where do you find hatred and intollerance in Keillor's piece?? Or even the fuel to propogate them?

And, of course, someone who finds Keillor's brand of humor unfunny - like someone who over-simplifies it and narrows it down to merely old people jokes - might not be the voice of reason on this topic either.

You're saying my personal bias precludes me from having a valid opinion. If that's the case, I'm saying you also suffer from a similar malady.
~ryan
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