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Guitar Heroism?

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Re: Guitar Heroism?

Postby Archipants » Fri Dec 26, 2008 3:52 pm

christopher_robin wrote:Shipley, read again.

The point is that playing music is very easy if you start with something basic... like Jingle Bells.

You sure you played the bass?

Do you actually think playing the bass line for "running with the devil" is "really, incredibly hard"? i could teach a chimp to do it.

The EVH guitar solo, on the other hand, is hard.

Obviously.

That's the point of the post. Playing music isn't hard. it's easy.

Playing complex music can be very difficult. This is also obvious.

Anyway, your statement "Playing music is really, incredibly hard." is not only demonstrably false, it betrays a deep ignorance about the nature of music...as does your last post.

Now that I think about it, maybe you should stick to the video games.

These are some of the most douchy remarks I've read in a long time... I think I understand what your getting at, but the way you're going about it is pretty fucked. The fact that this thread has resorted to an argument as to whether playing music is hard or easy is like arguing whether math is hard or easy. I don't even know what to say...

Guitar Hero is a video game... it is not replacing music. Musicians will continue to play instruments. I'll continue to play percussion despite playing G.H.

Blarg!
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Re: Guitar Heroism?

Postby christopher_robin » Fri Dec 26, 2008 4:30 pm

Blarg!

You said:
"Guitar Hero is a video game... it is not replacing music"

Well, you fucking douchebag, the whole point of the original post is that GH *is* replacing music for this young person.

And that, my fellow foron, is what is "pretty fucked" here. It's a scary little story.

p.s. math *is* initially very easy, then progressively more difficult, in just *exactly* the same way music is.

So I'm not sure where you are going with that.

Maybe you can explain (but I kind of doubt it).
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Re: Guitar Heroism?

Postby Archipants » Fri Dec 26, 2008 5:16 pm

christopher_robin wrote:Well, you fucking douchebag...

Awesome! Nice choice of words! A very adolescent way to get someone's attention.

Happy holidays, douche.

Captain Obvious wrote:p.s. math *is* initially very easy, then progressively more difficult, in just *exactly* the same way music is.

Have you ever thought of writing a book of musical insights?

christopher_robin wrote:And that, my fellow foron, is what is "pretty fucked" here. It's a scary little story.

I don't think Guitar Hero is to blame here. Maybe it's parents who allow their children to play it and then worry if they've gone to far that are to blame. Or maybe the fact that school districts are having to choose between funding music education and other necessary programs is to blame.

If you don't like the game, don't play it. If you think your kids are playing to many video games, stop them.

If G.H. is in fact replacing music for this young person, then I question the parental decision making ability of Bigote. Depending on how old this young person is, there is no reason it should have gotten to this point.
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Re: Guitar Heroism?

Postby Shipley » Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:54 pm

I think this whole thread has been blown way out or proportion.

Theres little more to this than a very very old and very very common problem of kids wanting to play rather than learn or do their work.

Slap a new coat of paint on it and dramaticize about the "end of music!!!1! OMGWTFBBQ!!!!" but the answer is still the same as it was in my day, as was in my father's as it will be in my son's... MODERATION.

If the boy was prevented from playing games and forced to practice music, it would be just as bad. Moderation is good.

And fortunately for all, though Bigote sought public advice, thats not my call or your call or anyone's call to make but his.
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Re: Guitar Heroism?

Postby white_rabbit » Fri Dec 26, 2008 6:55 pm

Bigote, the answer is to treat Guitar Hero as a game, and play time should be regulated as a reward. Perhaps play time could be predicated upon completion of goals with real music. If I had a kid who was interested in football, I wouldn't let him or her substitute actual participation in the game and/or practice for playing John Madden's NFL. You shouldn't allow actual music practice and/or participation in the making of music for playing a video game either. The next present you give your child should be music lessons with a professional teacher.
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Re: Guitar Heroism?

Postby MadMind » Sat Dec 27, 2008 3:52 am

Shipley wrote:Guitar Hero's skills don't directly translate to the instrument, for instance one strum bar vs 6 strings.

Unless we're talking about the drum kits for Guitar Hero: World Tour or Rock Band.
Then it may actually help one become a real-life drummer, correct?
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Re: Guitar Heroism?

Postby Bunny Chow » Sat Dec 27, 2008 8:36 am

white_rabbit wrote:If I had a kid who was interested in football, I wouldn't let him or her substitute actual participation in the game and/or practice for playing John Madden's NFL. You shouldn't allow actual music practice and/or participation in the making of music for playing a video game either. The next present you give your child should be music lessons with a professional teacher.


I took a different approach with positive results. I allowed my last kid to play as many video and computer games as he wanted for as long as he wanted since he was born. This year at age 6, he has tested with the highest reading and math scores in his entire grade. His advanced reading and math is absolutely a direct result of video games.

I also allowed him to devour as many skateboarding video games as he wanted for as long as he wanted. He was landing ollies by the age of three. His enthusiasm for skating is directly related to his advanced knowledge of the different tricks he learned about on video games.

Most of the time, he will play his games for a few hours and then go outside and re-enact them.

I bought him a piano and a flying V that sits in the front room collecting dust. Maybe I should get him these Guitar Hero games, yes?
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Re: Guitar Heroism?

Postby harrissimo » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:07 am

Guitar Hero won't ruin any kid for music. If someone got music in them then the music will find a way out.
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Re: Guitar Heroism?

Postby jammybastard » Sat Dec 27, 2008 10:34 am

*ahem*

as someone who is an actual musician
AND owns GH and RB2
AND used to be the douch-i-est motherfucker on this forum
let me lay down the law.

If you can play a GH or RB song on "EXPERT" on any instrument
then you *should* consider yourself as someone who would have success at playing an instrument.
Why?
Because he amount of dexterity (and sense of time) it takes to succeed at that level is phenomenal and shouldn't be discounted.
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Re: Guitar Heroism?

Postby Shipley » Sat Dec 27, 2008 11:04 am

MadMind wrote:
Shipley wrote:Guitar Hero's skills don't directly translate to the instrument, for instance one strum bar vs 6 strings.

Unless we're talking about the drum kits for Guitar Hero: World Tour or Rock Band.
Then it may actually help one become a real-life drummer, correct?


Most definitely. Check this out--
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OtQLoTlmxnQ
this kid plays "Run To The Hills" on expert on an actual drum set just by watching the notes from the game.

its worth noting that Alex Rigopulos, the guy who founded Harmonix and created both Guitar Hero and later Rock Band is a drummer himself and a graduate of MIT with a BS in music and theater arts.
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Re: Guitar Heroism?

Postby rrnate » Sat Dec 27, 2008 1:19 pm

J Mascis vs. David Cross on Guitar Hero 2 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hE9qVni6rto

Could we get some video of Christopher Robin playing Jingle Bells?
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Re: Guitar Heroism?

Postby TheBookPolice » Sat Dec 27, 2008 7:33 pm

Sorry. I don't think any one person can say that "music is easy" OR "music is hard."

Music is challenging. Music confronts you, and forces you to fully grasp it. Music is like Jacob and the Stranger. Struggling with music is the only way to really master it. Only savants and prodigies whose brains do not work like the majority of us need not struggle to master music. But I think that's the dictionary definition of the exception that proves the rule.

Some people don't have what it takes to win the struggle with music. Some have stubby fingers. Some have poor reflexes. Some have insufficient sense of rhythm or melody.

And some just lose interest in the struggle. That's the only failure that can be taught against. So for the OP, the suggestion to use GH as a reward for effort in "actual" music is a good one. Such an approach will show whether GH AND/OR "real" music is a priority for your child.

But to bash GH as a waste and useless is petty and rude. Anything that makes people happy isn't entirely useless.
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Re: Guitar Heroism?

Postby Shipley » Sun Dec 28, 2008 11:45 am

Also, if he's playing Guitar Hero Aerosmith, that really shouldn't count since Aerosmith isn't music.
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Re: Guitar Heroism?

Postby eriedasch » Mon Dec 29, 2008 12:42 pm

christopher_robin wrote:Well, you fucking douchebag, the whole point of the original post is that GH *is* replacing music for this young person.

And so what if it is? Not everyone's calling in life is or should be to become a skilled musician. And parents are certainly NOT the one's to decide this. At least that is how I feel.

No one has even bothered to ask how old the kid is. So a 10 year old would rather play a video game than practice learning a real instrument? Wow! Big surprise!

I grew up with similar interests as Bigote's kid many decades before GH or most other video games for that matter. My dad's younger brother played in a band and that made quite an impression on me at a very young age. My sister and I used to drag his old broken down guitars out of the closet at my gramma's house and pretend to play them very early on. Then I discovered "my own" music (Kiss, Cheap Trick, Nugent, Van Halen). Then in junior high I got my first acoustic guitar and started taking lessons after school from the choir teacher who volunteered his time. I was not forced into this by my parents and was great fun at first, learned an easy (2 chord?) Beatles tune and then got to learn a song of my choice - I think it was a Kiss song. But it was hard work, my fingers hurt, and slowly lost interest.

This was during the '80's and the new thing at the time was air bands. Since I was so much into music, it was only natural for me and my friends to become completely obsessed with making instruments, rehearsing, and competing in air band competitions. We took it to a new level and even beat out the seniors at our high school when we were mere sophmores doing songs from a new upcoming genre of music called heavy metal.

Fast forward to early college days, bored and looking for something to waste time on instead of studying, I pulled out that old dusty acoustic guitar and started to relearn all the basic chords. I saved up money for an electric and an amp, taught myself how to play Judas Priest and Metallica rhythms and not long after joined my first band. Since then I've been playing in bands for the past 20 years.

While getting up to speed on the real guitar in college and joining that first band, I wished many times I would not have wasted all that time with airbands. But now looking back would not trade all the fun, experiences, and life lessons learned I had with my junior high and high school air bandmates.

When it came to playing music it was always on my own terms. You can't force a kid to want to play an instrument. All you can do is encourage them to follow their interests. And I see very little wrong with allowing them to play video games that help enhance these skills and develop these interests. Of course it is up to the parent(s) to decide how much time spent on the "game" is right for the kid and make sure he/she has priorities set (i.e. finish that math homework and then you can play guitar hero).

I think my air band experiences are similar to today's guitar hero and rock band video games. As a teenager, I turned my back on the real instrument only to come back to it later in life because of the fun I had faking it in air bands only made me want to do the real thing that much more.
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Re: Guitar Heroism?

Postby Shipley » Mon Dec 29, 2008 1:36 pm

you know what always makes me want to play? going out and seeing a really good band. the next day I'm always noodling on my guitar.

Of course if I see a really good game, I want to play it.

I'm really, really impressionable.
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