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Israel's war crimes

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Israel's war crimes

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun Jun 14, 2009 3:28 pm

Same thing, cleaned up...
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20090112/f ... eaccordian
• Collective punishment: The entire 1.5 million people who live in the crowded Gaza Strip are being punished for the actions of a few militants.
• Targeting civilians: The airstrikes were aimed at civilian areas...the most densely populated area of the Middle East.
• Disproportionate military response:
Israeli actions...have led to severe shortages of medicine and fuel (as well as food)

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... trike.html
"When the missile stuck, I lay down with my daughter under me...The persons killed around me were my husband, who was hit in the back, my father-in-law, who was hit in the head and whose brain was on the floor, my mother-in-law Rabab..."
Israeli soldiers were within a hundred yards of the children but did not help them led to the ICRC to issue an uncharacteristically strong condemnation.


'My cousin is still under the rubble' ~ Mona El Farra, a paediatrician from Gaza City currently in the UK, tells of her feelings about Israel's assault in Gaza: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/de ... or-victims

Gaza massacre slide-show: http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2008/12/2 ... slideshow/

Pictures from the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/gallery ... =341550366

Pictures comparing damage from Gazan Rockets to Israel's attacks: http://palestinian.ning.com/forum/topic ... -the-story

Christians in Jerusalem want Jews to stop spitting on them: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShAr ... mNo=487412

Brief history of the Israeli/Arab conflict: http://www.mideastweb.org/briefhistory.htm

Tidy synopsis of the wars and division of land: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/history/index.html

Map of shrinking Palestine: http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2006/05/1 ... palestine/

Ratio of deaths, prisoners, homes destroyed, etc: http://ifamericansknew.org/

Abandoned Gaza Zoo destroyed, animals shot at point blank by Israeli soldiers: http://www.uruknet.de/?s1=1&p=51213&s2=26

UN: IDF officers admitted there was no gunfire from Gaza school which was shelled: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1054009.html
The United Nations is claiming Israeli military officers have admitted there was no Palestinian gunfire emanating from inside an UNRWA school in Gaza which was shelled by an IDF tank...a Palestinian working for the UNRWA was killed by an IDF tank shell while driving an aid truck...the UN truck was well-marked and the incident took place during the humanitarian hiatus.


http://sabbah.biz/mt/archives/2009/01/0 ... a-victims/
Norwegian medics told Press TV correspondent Akram al-Sattari that some of the victims who have been wounded since Israel began its attacks on the Gaza Strip on December 27 have traces of depleted uranium in their bodies.


Israeli firing phosphorous after ceasefire. Sun, 18 Jan 2009 Israel has shelled Gaza with white phosphorus after it called for a unilateral ceasefire, in an obvious violation of its own declaration: http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=82 ... =351020202

Popular special order shirts by Israeli soldiers: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1072466.html

A Religious War in Israel’s Army: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/weeki ... 1&emc=eta1
“the rabbinate brought in a lot of booklets and articles and their message was very clear: We are the Jewish people, we came to this land by a miracle, God brought us back to this land and now we need to fight to expel the non-Jews who are interfering with our conquest of this holy land. This was the main message, and the whole sense many soldiers had in this operation was of a religious war.”


CBS 60 minutes exposing Israel's apartheid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYAgyv2M ... 08&index=8

Video commentary on the conflict: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynWjYHP9 ... ture=email

US support of Israel is the Primary motive for the 9/11 attacks, says 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shaikh Mohammed; w/support from US intelligence officials: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D7EB1FxE ... xt_from=PL

65 US Vetoes at the UN protecting Israel from following International laws: http://www.krysstal.com/democracy_whyusa03.html

Islam against terrorism, loads of links: http://www.unc.edu/~kurzman/terror.htm

Jews against the Israeli genocide of Palestinians: http://www.ijsn.net/home/

Media bias: although 22 times more Palestinian kids were killed by Israeli's in 2004, ABC, CBS, & NBC reported the deaths of Israeli kids killed by Palestinians 10 times more instead: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/media/net-report.html

Outlines context of the conflict & US media propaganda; Chomsky, etc: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 8578139565

Jimmy Carter on Gaza now: http://media.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/ ... inionsbox1

An Unnecessary War - By Jimmy Carter~January 8, 2009

I know from personal involvement that the devastating invasion of Gaza by Israel could easily have been avoided...


http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/ ... 10/moyers/

For too much of the world at large, the names of the dead and wounded in Gaza might as well be John Doe too. They are the causalities and victims of Israel's decision to silence the rockets from Hamas terrorists by waging a war on an entire population... by killing indiscriminately, the elderly, kids, entire families, by destroying schools, & hospitals, Israeli did exactly what terrorists do"


US Marine comments compares US Army to Israel's crimes in Gaza: http://community.nytimes.com/comments/w ... ecommended
I am dismayed by the rhetoric from US politicians and pundits to the effect that if the US were under rocket attack from Mexico or Canada, we would respond like the Israelis. This a gross insult to US servicemen; I can assure you that we would NOT respond like the Israelis...Americans do not, I repeat DO NOT, respond to that fire indiscriminately... We always evaluate the threat to civilians before responding, and in an urban area the threat to civilians is extremely high.


Robert Fisk: http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/co ... 30046.html
"Yes, Israelis deserve security. Twenty Israelis dead in 10 years around Gaza is a grim figure indeed. But 600 Palestinians dead in just over a week, thousands over the years since 1948 – when the Israeli massacre at Deir Yassin helped to kick-start the flight of Palestinians from that part of Palestine that was to become Israel – is on a quite different scale. This recalls not a normal Middle East bloodletting but an atrocity on the level of the Balkan wars of the 1990s."


Many Civilian Targets, but One Core Question Among Gazans: Why? January 19, 2009: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/world ... 3&emc=eta1

"Israel may face war crimes trials over Gaza"
• Court looks at whether Palestinians can bring case
• International pressure grows over conflict
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/ma ... rimes-gaza
The deliberations would potentially open the way to putting Israeli military commanders in the dock at The Hague over the campaign, which claimed more than 1,300 lives...amid mounting international pressure on Israel...(an) inquiry by the International Committee of the Red Cross into the actions of Israel and Hamas during the recent conflict in Gaza is expected to accuse Israel of using "excessive force"


http://www.plands.org/speechs/3.htm

BALFOUR’S ODYSSEY ~ From Betrayal to Expulsion and Quest for Return ~ In my day dreams, I often imagine sitting among the audience in a huge court-room, watching Balfour in the dock, hearing a recital of a long list of charges against him. Indeed for almost a century, eighty-eight years to be exact, Palestine and beyond have been the scene of 5 major wars and hundreds of air, land and sea raids. It had witnessed destruction of its towns and villages, untold suffering by 6 million Palestinian refugees, at least half a million killed or injured, many millions outside Palestine dispersed in war years in Sinai, Suez Canal, Golan and Lebanon. All this is topped by the longest and most brutal occupation in the world today.
Above all, Balfour has the dubious distinction of being the first to set the policy for what became the biggest planned ethnic cleansing operation in modern history.


http://www.prospectsforpeace.com/2008/0 ... out_t.html
Zertal, a leading Israeli historian, and Eldar, a chief political columnist and a former Washington correspondent for the Israeli daily Ha'aretz, have recently published Lords of the Land: The War for Israel's Settlements in the Occupied Territories, 1967-2007. It is a detailed history of Israel's nearly forty-year occupation of Gaza and the West Bank with a painful contention at its core. The occupation, say Zertal and Eldar, has wounded Israel's very psyche, damaging both its sense of self and its moral standing in the world.


Video of Israeli Kill-dozer driver laughing just after he ran over Rachel Corrie: http://judicial-inc.biz/r,lachel_corrie_video.htm

Fighting for life: American peace activist shot by Israelis: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 52604.html
The parents of an American peace activist publicly appealed yesterday for a full investigation into how their son was shot in the head with a high velocity tear gas canister by Israeli security forces...the canister round – with a range of more than 400 metres – was fired directly at Mr Anderson from about 60 metres...Tristan Anderson, 38, remains in critical condition after three brain operations...Mr Anderson suffered a multiple fracture to his skull, severe injury to the frontal lobe of his brain, and a collapsed eye socket


Naomi Klein's pitches in: http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree ... ott-israel
"Enough. It's time for a boycott. It's time. Long past time. The best strategy to end the increasingly bloody occupation is for Israel to become the target of the kind of global movement that put an end to apartheid in South Africa."


Is there a sliver hope?

"JERUSALEM – Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu endorsed the idea of establishing an independent Palestinian state beside Israel for the first time on Sunday, dramatically reversing himself in the face of U.S. pressure but attaching conditions the Palestinians swiftly rejected."
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby makmadison » Fri Jun 19, 2009 11:55 pm

You are an ass. Nuf said.
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby ilikebeans » Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:06 am

If we want know the current anti-Israeli news/propaganda, we can find it just fine on, oh, I dunno, about a thousand web sites.

Stop fucking spamming the Forum, ya dick.
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby jonnygothispen » Sat Jun 20, 2009 1:52 pm

Wow, look at that^. So you're for an ethnic cleansing, illegal occupation, starving, sanctions, harassment, shooting kids in the back of their heads, violations of International laws, US vetoing 65 UN resolutions to bring Israel into compliance of International laws, deliberately shooting Red Cross workers during an agreed lull in the illegal invasion, you're against self-defense, for Zionist racism...or just EXTREMELY ignorant, and you think I'm an ass?

Amazing...I've received a great many compliments for this thread and wanted to clean it up for easier access. if you have something to CONTRIBUTE, please feel free. I don't know what part exposing the injustices in Gaza you have a hard time understanding, but until you do, you should go play in traffic, and let the adults at your house on the PC for a change.
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby ilikebeans » Sat Jun 20, 2009 6:04 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:Wow, look at that^. So you're for an ethnic cleansing, illegal occupation, starving, sanctions, harassment, shooting kids in the back of their heads, violations of International laws, US vetoing 65 UN resolutions to bring Israel into compliance of International laws, deliberately shooting Red Cross workers during an agreed lull in the illegal invasion, you're against self-defense, for Zionist racism...

I said absolutely none of those things. Don't put words in my mouth.

I could spend all my free time copy/pasting every single news item I could find to support my side on any number of horrible situations across the world. But you know what? After a while, it becomes noise on a forum that's dedicated to group discussion. Ever notice you're usually the only one posting in your threads?

Maybe you should start your own blog.
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby makmadison » Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:51 pm

ilikebeans wrote:I said absolutely none of those things. Don't put words in my mouth.

I could spend all my free time copy/pasting every single news item I could find to support my side on any number of horrible situations across the world. But you know what? After a while, it becomes noise on a forum that's dedicated to group discussion. Ever notice you're usually the only one posting in your threads?

Maybe you should start your own blog.


Well said.
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:56 pm

Where are either of your productive posts? Are there any? Am I following either of you 2 around and talking down to you?

Your notion of making "noise" to condescend about something you disagree with because it doesn't make you feel good, and pretending it's somehow the "high road" doesn't gel. You gave yourself away...You don't own the collective Madison mind.
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby ilikebeans » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:24 am

jonnygothispen wrote:Where are either of your productive posts? Are there any?

I post regularly on this forum. You can judge for yourself if I'm "productive" or not. (And no, I don't care about your decision.)

jonnygothispen wrote:Am I following either of you 2 around and talking down to you?

I am not "following you around." Anytime you post, it comes up in the "active topics" and "unread posts" listings. You're hard to ignore, but I try.

jonnygothispen wrote:Your notion of making "noise" to condescend about something you disagree with...

Don't assume my disagreement with your techniques has anything to do with your content. I'm actually more in agreement on the issue with you than you think. But this is not about that.

jonnygothispen wrote:You don't own the collective Madison mind.

Well you're right about that. Nor do I work for Isthmus. So allow me to make an offer:

If only one other Foron posts in this thread and states that your dozens of pages of anti-Israel screeds (and don't for a second pretend you're being fair and balanced here) are worthwhile and constructive, I'll shut up about this issue and just ignore you, like I ignore the super-Christians on Library Mall.

If no one posts, you stop cutting/pasting every fucking news item you can find that fits your world view (i.e., stop being a left-wing Ned Flanders). Deal?

Any takers?
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby Peanutbutter » Mon Jun 22, 2009 5:20 am

I'd rather read long messages about Israel (or anything) than read long messages crying and complaining about long messages about Israel (or anything).

For real, you had to spend all that time whining instead of just ignoring it? I wasn't going to say anything myself, but you did ask for feedback.
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby jonnygothispen » Mon Jun 22, 2009 12:29 pm

I've said why I presented it this way, and the clues are scattered throughout the thread. It's PRECISELY because our media is so biased in Israel's favor, against the Palestinians, that I tried to give the other side. Never mind the importance of the fact that we were attacked on 9/11 primarily because of our support of Israel and the crimes they're committing in the region. But when you look at the unfairness of the media coverage and hear from reliable sources (did you see Noam speak at the Orpheum? not to mention what Robert Fisk, Jimmy carter Naomi Klein and others say) what the coverage is like, and you can't come to the conclusion that Israel has been and is committing crimes on a massive scale, and is only able to escape it because of our vetoes of UN resolutions to bring them into compliance with international laws, then I'd question your interest or ability to decipher why it's important information. I've come to the conclusion that Israel's actions are easily the main provocation that created this conflict, and that their continued violations of International laws is what creates the angst and anger that allows it to continue.

Instead you made it personal, and I'm only a microdot of sand in the desert in comparison.

Could you stop pretending you know or understand who I am?
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby Bland » Mon Jun 22, 2009 1:03 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:It's PRECISELY because our media is so biased in Israel's favor, against the Palestinians, that I tried to give the other side.

But your "other side" is as one-sided as that which you decry from the media (and nevermind that all your links disprove your claim - it's clearly not difficult to find anti-Israeli news stories.) Replacing one bias with another is not a road to understanding. Ever considered examining both sides?
jonnygothispen wrote:I've come to the conclusion that Israel's actions are easily the main provocation that created this conflict...

And every time you say this, I remind you that historically, that's not true. The modern conflict over the region is a direct result of the failure of the British Mandate, which came to a head in 1947, when the UK threw up their arms and declared the situation unresolvable, tossing it to the newly-formed UN to work out. The UN responded with a plan to divide the region into two states -- one Jewish, one Arab -- leaving Jerusalem as an "international city" belonging to neither. The Jews accepted this proposal, the Arabs rejected it. When the Jews went ahead and declared their independence anyway, the newly-formed nation of Israel was immediately attacked (literally, the next day) by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq (with aid from Morocco, Sudan, Yemen and Saudi Arabia.) Since then, it's been a constant case of attacks and withdrawls. You can correctly point out that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is abhorrent, but you cannot deny (and expect anyone to take you seriously) that Israel has had to defend itself against Arab aggression throughout its history. Why you insist that the blame must be placed solely on one group when clearly everyone is culpable is baffling. This is a two-sided conflict between Israel and their Arab neighbors and the Palestinians are caught in the middle (and mistreated by both sides - ever wonder why Israel's neighbors don't open their borders to allow the Palestinians to escape from their miserable existence? I'd argue it's because then there'd be one less compelling reason to call for the destruction of Israel.)
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby Jazznews » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:46 pm

Israel has Arabs in the government, most Arab countries would never allow Jews in the government. In Saudi Arabia people with non-Muslim religious items can be arrested.
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby jonnygothispen » Mon Jun 22, 2009 2:46 pm

Bland wrote:And every time you say this, I remind you that historically, that's not true. The modern conflict over the region is a direct result of the failure of the British Mandate, which came to a head in 1947, when the UK threw up their arms and declared the situation unresolvable, tossing it to the newly-formed UN to work out. The UN responded with a plan to divide the region into two states -- one Jewish, one Arab -- leaving Jerusalem as an "international city" belonging to neither. The Jews accepted this proposal, the Arabs rejected it. When the Jews went ahead and declared their independence anyway, the newly-formed nation of Israel was immediately attacked (literally, the next day) by Egypt, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Iraq (with aid from Morocco, Sudan, Yemen and Saudi Arabia.)... You can correctly point out that Israel's treatment of the Palestinians is abhorrent, but you cannot deny (and expect anyone to take you seriously) that Israel has had to defend itself against Arab aggression throughout its history.


and this is the exact kind of misinformation I hope to dispel. The trouble began with the Balfour agreement in 1917, and the absolution of the white paper in 1922, which set the path for the 1947 dilemma. You incorrectly say that Israel was attacked in 1967, they attacked w/o proof they were going to be attacked. let's try this:

"In June l967, we had a choice. The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him." -- Menachem Begin in The New York Times, August 21, 1982

The Arab national leaders in 1967 fell victim to what can only be called a cultural defect that let them goad one another into ever more bellicose statements of ill intent toward the Israelis, without actual accompanying concrete plans, or even ability, to act on it. Saddam made bellicose statements, so has Kim Jong. And now you see...in between all of this is Israel's instant aggression as if things were as you said. The lie that they're "defending" themselves is like a house of cards waiting to fall as soon as we stand up to them, and they know it, which is why there is a flurry of constant misinformation from them and influence in our media. It's not as mysterious or as complicated as you suggest, nor do I misunderstand or not know most of what Hamas is doing, or what the PLO did.

All I've suggested is that we make Israel follow International laws as a start to a solution. I commend Obama highly for standing up to them in regards to the illegal settlements as a start.

What you suggest is that I misunderstand it. I don't think that's true.
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby Bland » Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:48 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:
and this is the exact kind of misinformation I hope to dispel. The trouble began with the Balfour agreement in 1917, and the absolution of the white paper in 1922, which set the path for the 1947 dilemma.

That's pretty much what I said. The British Mandate was a failure, so the UK gave up and in 1947 the UN took over handling the situation in the region. Where is the misinformation in what I wrote, given that it doesn't disagree with what you just said at all?

jonnygothispen wrote:
You incorrectly say that Israel was attacked in 1967, they attacked w/o proof they were going to be attacked.

Huh?
First of all, I didn't say anything about 1967.
Israel fought their war for independence in 1948. That's shortly after the UN's division of the region into countries was accepted by the Jews and rejected by the Arabs. In my mind, that's the crucial date, even if you choose to ignore it (as you always have in the past. It's almost as if you are unwilling to admit that every one of Israel's neighbors attacked them the day after they declared independence. You can look it up. It happened.)
Secondly, I never said anything about "w/o proof".
So now you're just making shit up.
Read what I write, not what you assume I will.
jonnygothispen wrote:
What you suggest is that I misunderstand it. I don't think that's true.
You think a lot of things that are incorrect, as neatly demonstrated above.
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Re: Israel's war crimes

Postby Jazznews » Mon Jun 22, 2009 4:03 pm

Bland wrote:And every time you say this, I remind you that historically, that's not true. The modern conflict over the region is a direct result of the failure of the British Mandate, which came to a head in 1947, when the UK threw up their arms and declared the situation unresolvable, tossing it to the newly-formed UN to work out. The UN responded with a plan to divide the region into two states -- one Jewish, one Arab -- leaving Jerusalem as an "international city" belonging to neither. The Jews accepted this proposal, the Arabs rejected it. ...



Yes, and Truman was in favor of it because he didn't want all those Jews from the concentration camps being dumped in America. No one wanted them. That's one reason Israel was created. So much anti-semitism. They Jewish survivors couldn't even go back to their own homes in Poland and all the other countries.


There was a show a of couple years ago on PBS about a Holocaust survivor going back to the small town in Poland where he was taken from. He went to his house and the man there denied anyone else had lived there. But when the survivor left the man tore the house up looking for money. Also, the Jewish cemetery had been destroyed, and as the days went on, the people of the town (no Jews there) began to call the man anti-semitic names.
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