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Free the Herb, it's superb.

If it's news, but not politics, then it goes here.

What is the answer to our Drug (War) woes?

Legalize Maryjane, Herb, Pot, Boo, Grass, Dank?
26
87%
Lock up hop-heads for many months or even years?
4
13%
 
Total votes : 30

Free the Herb, it's superb.

Postby dalschaef » Mon Jul 19, 2004 9:44 am

I'm taking sobriquet up on his suggestion that I start a new topic, namely, the United States Government's unconstitutional ban on Marijuana sale and possession, dating, I believe, from 1937. Considering this is a drug from which not a single person has ever O.D.'ed on, why do we tolerate our criminal government trampling on the words of the Declaration of Independence? Whatever happened to Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness? Compared to the ravages of alcoholism, nicotine addiction, and chocolate dependency:), there are simply no serious repercussions (unless the munchies, cotton-mouth and maybe a bit of... er I forgot, oh yeah, short-term memory loss) from responsible adult pot use.

I believe it's time to eliminate criminal sanctions against cannibis. I also oppose criminalization of mind-altering substances altogether, though that may admittedly be an issue for another thread. Remember the "successes" of America's 1920-1933 Prohibition of imbibed spirits? Like millions of otherwise normal citizens branded criminals. People poisoned by bathtub gin and rotgut whiskey. The rise of a deeply entrenched, murderous mob culture. Repeal turned out to be the only solution for that legislative disaster. So, also, the time to end Pothibition is NOW. Law Entrapment's "cure" (hundreds of thousands locked up for trying to obtain an illegal smile) is far, far worse than the "disease" of... what, watching too many Cheech and Chong movies while stoned?
Last edited by dalschaef on Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:42 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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No problem?

Postby papalion » Mon Jul 19, 2004 12:22 pm

You should read todays State Journal regarding the accident near Roxbury.
Could spawn a new organization: a spin-off from MADD called MAMA-Mothers Against Marijuana Abuse.

Peace
Papa Lion
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Re: No problem?

Postby dalschaef » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:12 pm

papalion wrote:You should read todays State Journal regarding the accident near Roxbury.
Could spawn a new organization: a spin-off from MADD called MAMA-Mothers Against Marijuana Abuse.

Peace
Papa Lion


Papa, did the article you refer to appear in the print edition, or is it on Madison.com? I am away from Madison for a time and depend on the web edition, where I didn't see it today. You will in any case note that in my post I was talking about responsible adult pot use. Personally I don't drive stoned - I found it very unsettling when I did so as a juvenile.
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Re: No problem?

Postby white_rabbit » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:16 pm

dalschaef wrote:
papalion wrote:You should read todays State Journal regarding the accident near Roxbury.
Could spawn a new organization: a spin-off from MADD called MAMA-Mothers Against Marijuana Abuse.

Peace
Papa Lion


Papa, did the article you refer to appear in the print edition, or is it on Madison.com? I am away from Madison for a time and depend on the web edition, where I didn't see it today. You will in any case note that in my post I was talking about responsible adult pot use. Personally I don't drive stoned - I found it very unsettling when I did so as a juvenile.


Driving stoned should be illegal, just like driving drunk. But smoking a bowl should be legal just like having a few drinks.
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Re: No problem?

Postby blunt » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:30 pm

white_rabbit wrote:Driving stoned should be illegal, just like driving drunk. But smoking a bowl should be legal just like having a few drinks.


Pot shots for everyone!
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Re: No problem?

Postby white_rabbit » Mon Jul 19, 2004 3:40 pm

blunt wrote:
white_rabbit wrote:Driving stoned should be illegal, just like driving drunk. But smoking a bowl should be legal just like having a few drinks.


Pot shots for everyone!


I was going to post a pithy and witty response about meeting you behind a certain dumpster in a certain alley, but now that this forum is being monitored by the Dane County Sheriffs Department I will refrain from such crazy-talk, because of course, none of us actually smoke pot, we just think it would be a cool concept to have the freedom to do so.
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Postby sobriquet » Mon Jul 19, 2004 4:57 pm

First off, I'm a girl. I forgive ya, though.

Second of all, I don't do drugs after my friend from Columbia told me what it has done to his nation. I think legalizing marijauna could partly help restore those areas that are being overrun by FARC, and those idiots who want to revive the Shining Path. This is for those people that think only stoners want to legalize pot.

Thirdly, I believe pot is only harmful in that it is unregulized. I've had friends buy pot laced with other drugs, and like to admit it or not, there are some freaky-ass dealers out there. Just like when alcohol was illegal, pot can end up controlled by criminals. If pot was legal, and the public could purchase it at a cafe or smoke bar, then I think we'd all be a lot safer out there.

I know I don't take the typical pro-pot stance, and will probably get some slack on both sides, but educate me if there is anything I'm missing here. Just don't be an asshole about it. I'm open for discussion.
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Sorry, force of habit I guess

Postby dalschaef » Mon Jul 19, 2004 6:20 pm

sobriquet wrote:First off, I'm a girl. I forgive ya, though.

Second of all, I don't do drugs after my friend from Columbia told me what it has done to his nation. I think legalizing marijauna could partly help restore those areas that are being overrun by FARC, and those idiots who want to revive the Shining Path. This is for those people that think only stoners want to legalize pot.

Thirdly, I believe pot is only harmful in that it is unregulized. I've had friends buy pot laced with other drugs, and like to admit it or not, there are some freaky-ass dealers out there. Just like when alcohol was illegal, pot can end up controlled by criminals. If pot was legal, and the public could purchase it at a cafe or smoke bar, then I think we'd all be a lot safer out there.

I know I don't take the typical pro-pot stance, and will probably get some slack on both sides, but educate me if there is anything I'm missing here. Just don't be an asshole about it. I'm open for discussion.


Yeah, Sorry 'bout that, Sobriquet. Strange that I still use the pronouns "he, his" sometimes when it would be more accurate, albeit impersonal, to say for example: "Sobriquet said in its last post..."
In any case, I actually appreciate your point of view. For the most part, your comments fairly exude common sense. About the situation in Colombia and Peru, though, it's kind of one-sided to condemn the FARC and Sendero Luminoso, violent, corrupt and screwed-up as they often are, without at least mentioning the incredible violence committed by the Governments of those respective countries and their "right-wing" para-military underlings.

Hopefully I'm not coming off as an "asshole" - in this context at least.
Your "fellow" foron, a guy "named"
Dalschaef
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Postby sobriquet » Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:05 pm

Fair enough, my Columbian friend did mention that they were assholes too. :)
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Postby purplepenquin » Mon Jul 19, 2004 7:43 pm

It's a plant, this is America. What else needs to be said about it?


Anyone who wishes to see an adult locked up in a cage for having an all natural plant is friggin' insane, ignorant and/or evil. Plain and simple.
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Print

Postby papalion » Mon Jul 19, 2004 10:05 pm

Dalshaef,
The bad news was in the print edition.
I get it every morning to do the crossword, but lately I've taken to cruising the rest of the paper to see what's happening. Election coming up and all, you now.

I find that the closer you are to a situation, the more surprised you are apt to be reading the account in the paper.

But that account was little sobering, maybe because I know where Roxbury is in the World. And the Mountain Lions just played there recently, and I heard an account about the Lions smoking pot before another gig.
So I was a "little off my chair" getting to a response.

I might agree that smoking pot is probably on a par with drinking alcohol. Either done combined with driving is a no no. And the laws and penalties should reflect that.

I know nothing about the effects on normal functions of pot. I have a little experience with alcohol. Have I driven after drinking enough to effect my functioning? You bet. I have never been stopped, arrested, had an accident.... have I been lucky? ans. =yes.

Reggae bands are notorious for being inhabited by rastafarians who promote, among other things which are not all bad, the legalization of marijuana. The Mtn Lions International have no rastas in their group and claim they were not smoking pot prior to the gig a few weeks ago. The story actually came from a policeman that walked past the van. I guess he though he was cute to deliver such an accusation to the event organizers.

But back on topic, just show us how to keep the stoners and drunks off the road and from killing themselves and others.

Peace,mon
Papa Lion
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Postby naked pagan » Tue Jul 20, 2004 1:47 am

PurplePenquin wrote:It's a plant, this is America. What else needs to be said about it?


There are good arguements about legalization, but this is not one of them.

Lets look at tabacco...its a plant that grows and supports certain sectors of our economy, but it produces a dangerous addictive drug that is responsible for the painful deaths of millions of people.

This is not to say marijuana is more or less safer than tabacoo, Im just saying the 'its all natural so its safe' line is bullshit.

Im more for the legaization, or at least redefination, of hemp so that the so called 'industrial hemp' market can be reborn in this country, but this is another topic altogether, but right now police departments and local governments are making enough money off of it precisisly because it IS illegal, it will be a hard sell.
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Postby gozer » Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:14 am

my clinical experience with pharmaceutical t.h.c. after i got the upchucks from pethidine and the big m for skin-popping earlier this year removed my last bit of doubt that the weed is a superior medicinal plant; later experiments went well.

they should legalise opium too in my opinion.

c.e.
founding member and charter signatory (1990) the national codeine o.t.c.* lobby

*and hydrocodone and dihydrocodeine as well
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Postby purplepenquin » Tue Jul 20, 2004 8:20 am

naked pagan wrote:
Lets look at tabacco...its a plant that grows and supports certain sectors of our economy, but it produces a dangerous addictive drug that is responsible for the painful deaths of millions of people.

This is not to say marijuana is more or less safer than tabacoo, Im just saying the 'its all natural so its safe' line is bullshit.



What's bullshit is trying to claim I said "its all natural so its safe", 'cause I never said that. I'm merely pointing out that it's an all natural-plant, and if someone wants to see another person locked up for having an all-natural plant then they must be insane, ignorant and/or evil.


For the record, tobacco isn't responsible for the deaths of anybody...last I checked, people have to actually pick up a cig and smoke it in order for it to cause any harm. That plant doesn't just sit there quietly waiting to kill people.

However, you raise an interesting point...Do you think we should ban tobacco and treat smokers like we've been treating tokers?
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Postby sobriquet » Tue Jul 20, 2004 3:39 pm

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