MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus on Twitter · Facebook · Flickr · Newsletters · Instagram 
Tuesday, September 30, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 44.0° F  Overcast
Collapse Photo Bar

City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.

City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Postby swimmingupstream » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:07 pm

...
Last edited by swimmingupstream on Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
swimmingupstream
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 379
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Postby radboy » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:14 pm

Does anyone know what Bruer has on the mayor? For the past couple of years Bruer has dragged the mayor all around town by the balls. It's embarrassing!
radboy
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:57 pm

Re: City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Postby Dairylander » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:18 pm

Thanks to Brenda for the lengthy reporting.
Dairylander
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 460
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:30 pm

Re: City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Postby swimmingupstream » Fri Jan 15, 2010 2:40 pm

...
Last edited by swimmingupstream on Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
swimmingupstream
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 379
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Postby Stu Levitan » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:13 pm

Why would I engage anonymous posters who have already made up their mind without knowing all the facts?

Let's try a quiz:

True or False: The CDA has made offers which are substantially more than the property-owners paid for the properties in question.

True of False: The offers the CDA made are consistent with the statutes.

True or False: The Burr Oaks Senior Housing Project will be a welcome and positive improvement to the neighborhood into which the city and CDA have already poured millions of redevelopment dollars.

Answer these questions truthfully and accurately, then we'll talk.
Stu Levitan
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3238
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2003 8:40 pm
Location: Studio B of the historic Abernathy Building

Re: City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Postby Goober McTuber » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:31 pm

Regarding your first question, it seems that these people have owned their properties for many years, to the point where their assessed values have doubled. I don’t see that as fair criteria.

I don’t fully understand the statutes so I’ll withhold comment.

Regardless of whether the proposed project is a welcome and positive improvement to the neighborhood, it sounds like the CDA is indeed trying to take advantage of property owners during a down market.

Anonymous? Are you suggesting this isn’t my real name?
Goober McTuber
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 285
Joined: Fri Sep 19, 2003 12:08 pm

Re: City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Postby Puffy » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:35 pm

True or False: The CDA offered one owner $260,000 while his tax assessment is $400,000...
Puffy
Member
 
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:32 pm

Re: City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Postby swimmingupstream » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:39 pm

....
Last edited by swimmingupstream on Thu Oct 14, 2010 5:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
swimmingupstream
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 379
Joined: Thu Jan 29, 2009 4:55 pm

Re: City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Postby snoqueen » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:55 pm

I don't see what African-American has to do with this. Is the offered price fair, or not? I'm not sure it is, but there are arguments on both sides. Maybe the fairest thing would be to engineer a property trade where the city finds the apartment owners comparable apartments to manage somewhere else in Madison and swaps them for the ones in question. No interruption of cash flow, desirable tax consequences, continuity for their family businesses...
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 11538
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Postby radboy » Fri Jan 15, 2010 4:55 pm

Stu Levitan wrote:Why would I engage anonymous posters who have already made up their mind without knowing all the facts?

Let's try a quiz:

True or False: The CDA has made offers which are substantially more than the property-owners paid for the properties in question..

This makes you look like a weasel Stu. These people bought these properties years ago and invested in them.



Stu Levitan wrote:True of False: The offers the CDA made are consistent with the statutes.

Big surprise. Laws are used to screw over poor African Americans. You would not do this to a rich white guy like the owner of Union Corners.
Stu Levitan wrote:True or False: The Burr Oaks Senior Housing Project will be a welcome and positive improvement to the neighborhood into which the city and CDA have already poured millions of redevelopment dollars...

It is mostly lining the pockets of your buddy Alder Tim Bruer and his rich friends.

Stu Levitan wrote:Answer these questions truthfully and accurately, then we'll talk.

I bet you won't.
radboy
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:57 pm

Re: City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Postby HOMOsapien » Fri Jan 15, 2010 5:19 pm

There is a difference between the city government ripping black people off and ripping a white, privileged, connected, city bureaucrat off. The ladder doesn't get ripped off because he IS a white, privileged, connected, city bureaucrat. He has a license to steal, that's how government redistribution works.

Ignore his nonsense talk; he knows he is stealing from these people. He will try blowing all this bullshit legal/technical language out of his mouth until the bitter end. Its pretty simple, in the end it all equates to legalized eminent domain theft.

Stuart loves eminent domain, so does Dave Cieslewicz. He has done this before while trying to acquire the land that Selective Video is sitting on top of. They didn't want to sell, so the city (the mayor was in favor of this taking as well) devalued the land's price on THEIR paper so a private developer could acquire it dirt cheap.
HOMOsapien
 

Re: City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Postby Stu Levitan » Fri Jan 15, 2010 8:55 pm

A debate about the appropriate use of eminent domain and community development activities is certainly a legitimate discussion. But when the issue is framed at the outset as reflecting racism on the part of the CDA -- that we're doing something to a particular group of landlords BECAUSE they are black -- it kind of poisons the well of thoughtful reflection, y'know? Because when you call somebody racist, it makes them a bit defensive (especially if they happen to have a pretty good record on racial issues).

The CDA in this instance acted at the direction of the Common Council, to use our statutory authority to implement a policy choice the City made to continue our revitalization efforts in South Madison by instigating the development of a high-quality Senior Housing project. In doing so, we have followed state statutes in making offers based on current appraisals. Does it look bad that our offers are below the current assessments? You bet. That's because the assessments lag behind reality. But we don't control that. Any landlord who felt their assessment was too high given the depressed market had the full right and ability to challenge their assessment. Again, we don't control that, either.

We have amended our offer to reflect a reasonable balance between the public interest in this project and doing right by the landlords. Those offers will not match current assessments (because those assessments are unduly high), but will be substantially more than the purchase price. We believe they will constitute just compensation. If a landlord disagrees, they'll take us to court.

Really not sure what Union Corners has to do with all this, or how this is going to enrich Tim Bruer personally.
Stu Levitan
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3238
Joined: Sat Feb 08, 2003 8:40 pm
Location: Studio B of the historic Abernathy Building

Re: City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Postby snoqueen » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:26 pm

Wait. Wait.

I almost came out on your side -- I'm in the middle, basically -- until you said let them take us to court.

If you stop and think about it, you know why that's an unfortunate comment. Some small-time apartment landlord has the money to hire a good lawyer, get all the preliminary stuff out of the way, and go head-to-head with the city in court to contest this plan? That's your idea of fair?

Not in my book. In fact, it sounds like bullying. We can agree the south side is struggling, and to treat ordinary south side landlords poorly hardly leaves the impression the city is trying to help regardless of how worthy the intended project might be. It's not like these guys are on the city's five worst landlords list. They sound like everyday people, and that's the trouble.

If these small business owners can't take the proceeds from the sale and purchase replacement properties affording equal potential income to what they are losing in this deal, they are not being fairly compensated. It shouldn't take a costly, risky court fight for them to make this happen.

There's got to be a way to discuss this, face to face and in good faith, so that everyone gets some satisfaction here.
Last edited by snoqueen on Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 11538
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Postby Dairylander » Fri Jan 15, 2010 10:47 pm

Well Stu, I am on your side, which is why I'm outbidding swimmingupstream and paying you $250K for your Nakoma home.
The check is in the mail. Please have your things out by Monday at noon, or I'll have the Sheriff escort you out.
If you disagree, you can take us to court.

Seriously though, I will ask everyone to examine whether this is really a racial issue or a class issue. I think it is much more plausible that the rich and well connected are taking advantage of those in a lower socio-economic position (and they happen to be black).
I would never accuse Stu or any of them as trying to screw the black guy. To the contrary I think the CDA is screwing the guy from the poor neighborhood (who happens to be black).

Thanks to Stu for his post. When someone yells "racist!" in a crowded room, it's extremely difficult to maintain any conversation.

And while I'm posting, eminent domain is such an outrageous fuck in the ass that it should be reserved for only the most dire of emergencies. "Senior housing" does NOT qualify.
Dairylander
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 460
Joined: Mon Jun 08, 2009 12:30 pm

Re: City of Madison CDA Screws African Americans

Postby radboy » Fri Jan 15, 2010 11:23 pm

So, the CDA according to their own staff tried to "low ball" these small property owners and steal their investments that they had put decades worth of sweat and toil into but somehow Stuart Levitan can only see himself and the CDA as the injured party? Laughable.

Tim Bruer and the CDA knows that these small property owners will lose in the long run if it ends up in court whether they have a case or not. This is one of the reasons why they would never try this tactic with the Union Corners site. (Also, those owners are well connected in the city power structure.) The Bancroft Dairy site that takes up acres of land at the point where South Park Street and Fish Hatchery comes together has set truly blighted for almost a decade now. Why doesn't the city do eminent domain there? We all know the reason.

Instead, the CDA tried to do a midnight raid on these politically unconnected small property owners thinking that no one would notice or care.

Levitan, the CDA does almost all of its work in minority populated communities. How many of the members of the CDA are minorities?

Get over yourself Mr. Levitan. At best the CDA is racially insensitive. With Tim Bruer being the dominant player on the CDA it suggest worst. Stuart Levitan even you know that is true.
radboy
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 202
Joined: Tue Aug 07, 2007 7:57 pm

Next

Return to Local Politics & Government

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar