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"Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

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"Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

Postby Huckleby » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:53 am

Many reports have suggested that the Democrats are now going to "pivot" to the issue of jobs, push health care to the back burner. Does anybody believe that the Dems can pretend that 2009 did not happen by changing the subject?

I was heartened by a story today that the Dems may regroup and keep fighting:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co ... 02952.html

The day after the Massachusetts debacle, Obama gave an interview with George Stepanopolis where he proposed that the Dems make a "pared down" compromise with Republicans. Leaving asside the reality that such a deal is impossible, I was horrified at the swiftness with which Obama abandoned the 30 million people who were to get health insurance under a comprehensive reform plan.

Don't blame me, I voted for Hillary.
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Re: "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

Postby Huckleby » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:55 am

Image
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Re: "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Jan 26, 2010 11:58 am

Health care in 2009 because the historical reality is that the party on the throne loses an average of 25 seats or so in the House and seats in the Senate at the midterms. The economy would always be on the burner during health care and after wards. Wasn't a bad strategy except that they underestimated the severity of the recession and the backlash from it.
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Re: "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

Postby Bwis53 » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:19 pm

Like Hilary, during Clinton's admin., they bring on the hot button first. It should have stuck on "It's the economy, stupid!" , then gone onto the next to do. It just looks like the Dems are really good at shooting themselves in the foot.
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Re: "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

Postby Huckleby » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:42 pm

The problem is that the Republicans are ferociously opposed to the establishment of health care as a right. The public, which mostly already has health insurance, is nervous about what they may lose if health care is expanded to all. It's a very, very tough job.

The only time comprehensive health care reform can possibly be addressed is in the first year when a president has maximum political capital, and congress has their year-long vacation from campaigning.

Jobs were addressed by the stimulus package. What more realistically can the federal government do?
Last edited by Huckleby on Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:48 pm

The problem is that the Republicans are ferociously opposed to the establishment of health care as a right.


No the only thing Republicans are against is being out of power.
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Re: "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

Postby jonnygothispen » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:52 pm

The whole health care issue proves how "anti-Christian" America actually is.

Single payer would save $400 billion a year and insure everyone, with most people getting better coverage than under private insurers. The public option would've reformed Medicare and Medicaid. Both were taken off the table by the "money-changers" before the Bill could be voted on.

Once it gets this twisted, it's hard to have a real discussion.
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Re: "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

Postby Huckleby » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:53 pm

fisticuffs wrote:
The problem is that the Republicans are ferociously opposed to the establishment of health care as a right.


No the only thing Republicans are against is being out of power.

It's saying the same thing.

As Billy Crystal, I mean Bill Kristol pointed-out in famous 1993 memo, if the Democrats get credit for expanding health care to all, Republicans will be in permanent minority status. Therefore kill the bill.

http://theplumline.whorunsgov.com/presi ... n-of-dems/
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Re: "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

Postby Huckleby » Tue Jan 26, 2010 12:58 pm

jonnygothispen wrote:The whole health care issue proves how "anti-Christian" America actually is.


Yes, this is the great irony. America is the church-going capitol of the universe. Yet heathen Europe cares about its people as if they are all God's children.

Conservative Christians argue that they need to be Christian in their personal lives, government action is seperate issue.
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Re: "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

Postby fisticuffs » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:00 pm

Conservative Christians argue that they need to be Christian in their personal lives, government action is seperate issue.


You might be forgetting a few things. Abortion., Gay Marriage, Christian Nation, our Holy War against Islam...
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Re: "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

Postby Huckleby » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:03 pm

Good point, I guess it's just charity that is privatized. That must be set down somewhere in the old testament.
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Re: "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

Postby Stella_Guru » Tue Jan 26, 2010 1:58 pm

Huckleby wrote: The public, which mostly already has health insurance, is nervous about what they may lose if health care is expanded to all. It's a very, very tough job.

Possibly, but maybe the public is fed-up with a political process that turns lofty aspirations into a bill mandating public welfare to private companies. Any bets on a new jobs bill offering corporate America, our heros of super-individualism and free-enterprise, even more access to the public feeding trough?
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Re: "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

Postby Tiggs » Tue Jan 26, 2010 3:09 pm

Huckleby wrote:The problem is that the Republicans are ferociously opposed to the establishment of health care as a right.

Yup, those evil republicans. They prevented the democrats from passing their socialized medicine bill...even when the democrats had a filibuster proof majority--thus, the repubs could do nothing but watch.
Bad bad republicans.....

Jobs were addressed by the stimulus package. What more realistically can the federal government do?

not much. What gov can't do is create jobs---well, long lasting, productive ones.
But then again, if the govt continues to use stimulus money to....say give to kanopy dance studio....it may save the job of those that make tights, ballet shoes, and the like...in china.

We need to just have a DMV on every streetcorner.
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Re: "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

Postby Huckleby » Wed Jan 27, 2010 12:58 am

Stella_Guru wrote: Possibly, but maybe the public is fed-up with a political process that turns lofty aspirations into a bill mandating public welfare to private companies.


"The public" never harbored fantasies that the insurance companies could be marginalized in a stroke of legislation. You are referring to a relatively small number of ideologically pure, rigid progressives. The you-have-to-destroy-a-village-to-save-it cadres from huffington post and firedoglake played a negative role with their kill-the-bill stance.

In retrospect, the whole "public option" debate was a fatal drag on the effort to pass health care reform. The pointless wrangling over a weak public option delayed the bill too long. The "public option" was always a mirage.

If you dismiss the Obama strategy as "welfare to private companies" you are making a superficial judgement. Using private insurers to deliver universal coverage is a proven approach. Canada, which has chosen to have the goverment handle all the insurance, is getting mediocre results. Japan is doing better with private insurers. France, often cited as the best health care system in the world, licenses a handful of private insurance companies to deliver ALL of the insurance. So France isn't strictly speaking a "single payer" system.
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Re: "Jobs, Jobs, Jobs" or Health care. What's a Dem to do?

Postby Huckleby » Wed Jan 27, 2010 1:13 am

Tiggs wrote:
Huckleby wrote:The problem is that the Republicans are ferociously opposed to the establishment of health care as a right.

Yup, those evil republicans. They prevented the democrats from passing their socialized medicine bill...even when the democrats had a filibuster proof majority--thus, the repubs could do nothing but watch.
Bad bad republicans.....


You say the bill is socialized medicine. The left wing says it was a corporate give-away.

The Repubicans did a good job of drumming-up fear. The Democrats did not have 60 votes for reform in the Senate.

You can't get a really good health care bill with just Democrats, even if they had 80 votes. The Dems did their best. There are some needed changes that only the REpublicans will press for. And more importantly, real reform requires some politically difficult choices, like taxing health care benefits.
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