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Carol

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Re: Carol

Postby Madcity Expat » Tue May 31, 2011 10:17 am

Remember_Me wrote:I don't think the message she spouts is admirable. I think her passion and dedication is.
...
It's the passion and dedication itself that is admirable. Not necessarily the person and their message. It's unfortunate that it's being demonstrated by someone I don't agree with.

You keep arguing how the passion and dedication is being used by certain people you don't agree with. And I keep agreeing with you. I said I think she's wrong.

Still doesn't mean I can't respect the passion and dedication she has though.


I gotta side with Wagstaff on this one. Sorry Remember but I fail to see how "passion and dedication" are - by themselves - respectable qualities (your argument, yes?). I understand that you are regarding these as character traits, but (and I think Wagstaff is correct to point this out) they can be terribly misdirected, which has the potential to invert them into bad character traits.
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Re: Carol

Postby Bwis53 » Tue May 31, 2011 11:09 am

She reminds me of Lyndon LaRouche.
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Re: Carol

Postby Remember_Me » Tue May 31, 2011 4:32 pm

Madcity Expat wrote:
I gotta side with Wagstaff on this one. Sorry Remember but I fail to see how "passion and dedication" are - by themselves - respectable qualities (your argument, yes?). I understand that you are regarding these as character traits, but (and I think Wagstaff is correct to point this out) they can be terribly misdirected, which has the potential to invert them into bad character traits.


I think a sense of humor is also a good character trait.

Unfortunately, sometimes people use their good sense of humor to spew racist jokes or other hate.

I think the traits themselves are admirable. The people who abuse them... not so much.

You guys keep getting caught up on the messengers and not the traits themselves.

I also can't compare Carol to a guy who jumps on a plane, travels half the country, and then luckily gets caught before going on to murder abortion doctors.

I've read countless Carol rants. And that's all they've been... rants. I think her passion and dedication is admirable. She attends actual forums in PERSON, writes her own in-depth website, tries to present evidence, wrong and inaccurate as it may be, and is a diehard web participant.

I think comparing her to would-be murderers, the KKK, WBC, etc, is a tad much.

Snoqueen pointed out the medical communities 180s in the past, which I certainly agree with, and I for one don't mind someone out there challenging the medical community on their claims. Even if I believe the medical community's claims.

I don't think Carol has changed any of our minds on these issues she's so passionate and dedicated to... has she? I like that there's someone out there challenging the status quo. Even if I don't agree with their message. I don't think she's anywhere an extremist like the comparisons being made against her.

A few years ago the medical community said eating eggs would destroy your cholesterol levels and put you in an early grave. Now they're saying eat eggs as part of a healthy breakfast. Oh yeah, and watch your salt and fat intake... that will kill you too. Oh, but wait, we've changed our minds on that too.

I think it's pretty telling that people are citing everyone from attempted murderers to the KKK when discussing Carol and her passion and dedication.

You guys keep painting her as a monster and fearing her.

I'll continue to read her posts here or elsewhere and decide for myself what I think is right and wrong.
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Re: Carol

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue May 31, 2011 5:30 pm

Remember_Me wrote:I think it's pretty telling that people are citing everyone from attempted murderers to the KKK when discussing Carol and her passion and dedication.

So what does Carol citing the Nazis in her rebuttal to critics tell you?
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Re: Carol

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Tue May 31, 2011 5:41 pm

Remember_Me wrote: I think her passion and dedication is admirable.

It seems to me that "passion" and "dedication" are meaningless until they're applied to something. How can they exist independently of a cause, a belief, or an object? Carol's "passion" is to defend falshehoods and promote anti-science; her "dedication" is to obfuscating the truth. Being dedicated and passionate about an obvious lie are signs of unwavering dogmatism or mental illness, not qualities worthy of admiration.

Remember_Me wrote:I think comparing her to would-be murderers, the KKK, WBC, etc, is a tad much.

I absolutely agree. And I know you weren't responding to me directly here, but for the record, I compared her to Ann Coulter and I think that comparison is appropriate.
Remember_Me wrote:I for one don't mind someone out there challenging the medical community on their claims.

I'm all for challenging the medical community -- and science in general -- but only if there's a valid reason for doing so. The flip-flops about many health issues (which are as often as not symptoms of the lack of understanding of science by the mainstream media, not actual changes in scientific consensus) are the result of more and better research. But the connection between tobacco and cancer is so strong that we're beyond debating whether it happens-the only questions left are about the details. Challenging the experts is not only commendable, it's necessary if science is going to progress. But your starting point -- no matter how counter-intuitive or paradigm-shattering -- must certainly not have already been proven false if it's to have any value. Just as Ann Coulter starts from a position of ignorance -- Evolution doesn't happen -- so too does Carol, and this renders their challenges moot.

Remember_Me wrote:You guys keep painting her as a monster and fearing her.

I fear her only in the sense that I find such unhinged attacks on science dangerous. It's the same way I fear Dr. Oz or Deepak Chopra. I don't think those guys are gonna purposely hurt anyone, but I do think the last thing our society needs is more anti-science dumbing-down.
Last edited by Prof. Wagstaff on Tue May 31, 2011 5:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Carol

Postby Remember_Me » Tue May 31, 2011 5:42 pm

Henry Vilas wrote:
So what does Carol citing the Nazis in her rebuttal to critics tell you?


It tells me she's wrong too.

As I've been saying.

Good grief.
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Re: Carol

Postby kurt_w » Wed Jun 01, 2011 6:25 am

Henry Vilas wrote:She still posts at the madison.com forum. You can ask her there.


I noticed over the weekend Carol had started a thread about this stuff over there. Few will be surprised to learn that we've all been analogized to members of a certain far-right 20th-century German political party.

By Tuesday morning the thread appeared to have been deleted by the madison.com admins. Presumably, they're snazzy, too. Or worse yet .... Unitarian.

I hadn't looked at the madison.com forums in a couple of years. They don't exactly seem to be thriving. The site is also ugly as hell.
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Re: Carol

Postby Madcity Expat » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:13 pm

Prof. Wagstaff wrote:...I fear Dr. Oz...


Beyond the odd few seconds switching between channels on commercial breaks, I've never watched Dr. Oz, so I confess ignorance. But I didn't know he was a pseudo-science guy. I was under the impression that he was a regular physician (cardiologist, yes?) who's suggestions were, more or less, medically sound. That's not right?
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Re: Carol

Postby jjoyce » Wed Jun 01, 2011 1:16 pm

TDPF recently celebrated its tenth anniversary. During that time, I'm not sure a single person who has been banned from here hasn't immediately walked over to madison.com to trash this board.
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Re: Carol

Postby Prof. Wagstaff » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:04 pm

Madcity Expat wrote:Beyond the odd few seconds switching between channels on commercial breaks, I've never watched Dr. Oz, so I confess ignorance. But I didn't know he was a pseudo-science guy. I was under the impression that he was a regular physician (cardiologist, yes?) who's suggestions were, more or less, medically sound. That's not right?

It's sorta right. He is a real doc (no Dr. Phil is he) and his advice is quite often reasonable and sound, even when promoting certain "home remedies" and suggesting not everything should be treated with harsh drugs or invasive surgery. But he's married to an energy healer (a practitioner of Reiki) and is a big promoter of that, acupuncture, and other so-called "ancient" practices, using the twisted logic that "there are a billion people in another part of the world who use these therapies." As a doctor, he should know better than to use such a specious argument (a billion people believe 13 is an unlucky number too -- so what?) He has said that he loves CAM ("complementary and alternative medicine") because it is "the globalization of medicine", as if what works is somehow a democratic process, thereby tacitly supporting the idiotic notion that there's something distinct called "Western medicine" as opposed to just "science-based medicine".

He has given Deepak Chopra lots of airtime without questioning his particular brand of nonsense, promoted Dr. Joe Mercola on several occasions, endorsed the therapy of former Madonna-video-dancer-turned-Yogic-healer Cameron Alborzian, uncritically accepted the advice of faith healer Issam Nemeh, and even committed what I consider his greatest sin, having as a guest The Greatest Douche In The Universe John Edward (going so far as to suggest that grieving people should consult psychic mediums as a form of legitimate therapy!) For these and other efforts, he has become the only person to be twice awarded with The James Randi Educational Foundation's Media Pigasus Award.

So when I say I fear him it's because probably 2/3 of his advice is sound, which gives him the credibility he needs to promote the other 1/3 of his agenda. And I say without condescension that I doubt most of his audience is equipped with the proper bullshit-detection toolkit to determine when he's gone off the deep end.
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Re: Carol

Postby ilikebeans » Wed Jun 01, 2011 2:07 pm

Carol wasn't banned because of her adamant belief in her own delusional form of medical analysis. She was banned for actively wishing that more "liberals" had been shot by Loughner. Way, way over the line. This, of course, is only the tip of the iceberg-- she routinely made a habit of attacking anyone who challenged her in increasingly vindictive and threatening language.

To the question of why I keep an anonymous username on the Forum, she (and others like her, active or lurking) is the main answer.
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Re: Carol

Postby bdog » Wed Jun 01, 2011 4:48 pm

jjoyce wrote:TDPF recently celebrated its tenth anniversary. During that time, I'm not sure a single person who has been banned from here hasn't immediately walked over to madison.com to trash this board.

I didn't. Honest.

I bet Cortez did though.

He was hoppin' mad that last night. I hope his sister is doing ok.
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Re: Carol

Postby Dulouz » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:43 pm

I read her posts that seemed so evil. Meh, really pretty lame by Carol's standards. I am not sure what all of this is about except to continue the The Daily Page as an old coots forum for those who can't deal with Facebook.

In fact, I find it surprising that Carol is banned for her comments which, while inflammatory, hardly rise to the level of "threats" while those who call her a "cunt" are honored members of this old boys' club. It was clear to me that "Henry Vilas" was baiting her to get a reaction, so why blame Carol for rising to the occassion? I thought that Jason's idea was to get people to "crank the gears" to increase eye-balls and revenue. I would think Carol and Henry battling would be a great benefit, unless both have gotten too long in the tooth to be much to bother.

My bigger suggestion is that Isthmus needs to recruit another Daisy and another chuck_schick (but only ones that represent the current crew of 30 somethings and who don't actually break campaign laws requiring supeonas and the like). Maybe then we can allow crazy back onto the Forum.
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Re: Carol

Postby Peanutbutter » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:49 am

Dulouz wrote:In fact, I find it surprising that Carol is banned for her comments


It is obvious that her comments alone would have been acceptable, but instead it is who she decided to speak out against that got her into trouble. If Carol had raged only against the Republicans then I doubt any of the old boys would have complained about her. After all, since her banning we've already had two other people make the same kind of "threats" she made yet those forons are still here.
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Re: Carol

Postby Marvell » Mon Jun 13, 2011 11:24 am

Dulouz wrote:I am not sure what all of this is about except to continue the The Daily Page as an old coots forum for those who can't deal with Facebook.


While I will cheerfully answer to 'old coot,' the rest of this sentence is pure idiocy.

It's like saying booze is for people who can't deal with Grape Nehi.
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