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The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby lukpac » Tue Aug 09, 2011 11:58 pm

swimmingupstream wrote:Leading?

He could publicly say that "this $100 million project is important to creating jobs and economic opportunity in Madison."

He could publicly say that "for the Landmarks Commission to engage in a six week academic exercise that even its chair guarantees will go nowhere is just not acceptable during these economic times."

He could publicly say "this kind of insular behavior will scare off the good projects like University Crossing that we so desperately need right now." (You do remember that Soglin has been saying in every microphone he can stand in front of over the past four months that we are in a fiscal crisis, don't you?)


What's the point if nothing needs to be said?

The Landmarks Commission hearing is on 9/19. The issue comes to the council on 10/4. So the hearing doesn't in and of itself push anything back. And Stu has gone on the record saying it is unlikely this would get landmark status. So...what's the issue?
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby DCB » Wed Aug 10, 2011 8:47 am

swimmingupstream wrote:He could publicly say "this kind of insular behavior will scare off the good projects like University Crossing that we so desperately need right now."

So you think he should be more like the last mayor?
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby jjoyce » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:08 am

The key paragraph:

... the Spring Harbor resident who filed the nomination last month, insists she is just trying to preserve a building whose historic value she is just now learning about, along with a lot of other people. But Kinast has opposed University Crossing on other grounds, including the height of a planned six-story hotel and the potential impact of additional traffic on the area.


Apparently Landmarks needs to consider these nominations, assuming all the conditions are met. You either honor the process or you work to change it.

Unfortunately, before there was a process (and maybe what led to it being created in the first place), Madison was fond of surrounding its nice buildings with crap, which is exactly what that little corner of University/Whitney is. Anyone who has made a late-night detour through that Taco Bell lot knows what I'm talking about. Road conditions on that stretch of University don't help.

But this one has NIMBY written all over it. Welcome to Madison!
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby Michael Patrick » Wed Aug 10, 2011 9:20 am

lukpac wrote: The Landmarks Commission hearing is on 9/19. The issue comes to the council on 10/4. So the hearing doesn't in and of itself push anything back. And Stu has gone on the record saying it is unlikely this would get landmark status. So...what's the issue?


This is the key - having a hearing by the Landmarks Commission in and of itself won't delay the process. Obviously, giving the building landmark status would be a huge monkey wrench in the works, but given some of the public comments of Mr. Levitan and others I'd be very surprised if that happens.

If it happens, then there will be grounds for bitching about job killing and yada yada, but until then I'm more than happy to let the process play out.

And I'm not just an uninterested foron - I live close enough that I'll probably be able to hear the demolition equipment knocking down the existing buildings... and I support the development.
Last edited by Michael Patrick on Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby rabble » Wed Aug 10, 2011 10:52 am

swimmingupstream wrote:
lukpac wrote:What exactly is he supposed to be doing?

Leading?

I'm pretty sure "Leading" does not mean "Doing what I want you do, when I want you to it."
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby gargantua » Wed Aug 10, 2011 11:09 am

rabble wrote:
swimmingupstream wrote:
lukpac wrote:What exactly is he supposed to be doing?

Leading?

I'm pretty sure "Leading" does not mean "Doing what I want you do, when I want you to it."


The previous mayor went to great lengths to "lead" in support of the Edgewater proposal. It did not affect the Landmarks Commission deliberations or timelines in any way whatsoever that I could see. You might consider, Mr. Upstream, that an important quality of a leader is choosing one's battles wisely.

As an aside, I am not opposed to this development. My original post, which I stand by, was based on the belief that the anguish is premature.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby swimmingupstream » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:20 pm

Yes, you all are right.

It would be inappropriate for Mayor Soglin, of all people, to speak out publicly in support of getting this $100 million project rolling even though it will bring jobs to Madison and tax dollars to the the city's coffers.

Mayor Dave did that and as Paul Soglin has made clear, he is, above all else, the anti-Cieslewicz.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby jjoyce » Wed Aug 10, 2011 12:31 pm

gargantua wrote:It did not affect the Landmarks Commission deliberations or timelines in any way whatsoever that I could see.


That you could see....

Why should the executive, approved in a citywide election, hold any sway at all over an appointed commission?

Enough snark. If upstream wants to change the process, he should lobby to do so. But the appointed Landmarks commissioners are charged with abiding by the law, and it seems that's what they're doing. There are ways of changing the law, and maybe even wide support for doing so.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby lukpac » Wed Aug 10, 2011 1:37 pm

swimmingupstream wrote:It would be inappropriate for Mayor Soglin, of all people, to speak out publicly in support of getting this $100 million project rolling even though it will bring jobs to Madison and tax dollars to the the city's coffers.


Speaking out is going to do what, exactly? The project is already rolling.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby swimmingupstream » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:38 pm

jjoyce wrote:If upstream wants to change the process, he should lobby to do so. But the appointed Landmarks commissioners are charged with abiding by the law, and it seems that's what they're doing.

This was a completely discretionary decision made by Landmarks. As I pointed out in a previous post in fact the city staff person assigned to Landmarks, Amy Scanlon, strongly urged them in writing to not to make this decision. http://legistar.cityofmadison.com/attac ... c406b6.pdf Joyce are you suggesting that she was encouraging them to not follow the law?

jjoyce wrote:There are ways of changing the law, and maybe even wide support for doing so.

I don't want the law changed. I do want those serving on the Landmarks Commission to use good judgment and not turn it into a joke. Right now there is no doubt that it is a joke.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby swimmingupstream » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:51 pm

lukpac wrote:Speaking out is going to do what, exactly? The project is already rolling.

I am not going to re-post what I have already posted above but the project's builder is on record saying that if Landmarks takes this action it would threaten bringing the project to reality.

Lukpac and others are welcome to create their alternative reality but just remember that not everyone is smoking what they are smoking.

If Paul Soglin can not publicly support bringing jobs to Madison and more tax dollars to the city's coffers then I would hope that he could at least publicly support his employee Amy Scanlon, who the Landmarks Commission completely blew off.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby massimo » Wed Aug 10, 2011 2:58 pm

swimmingupstream wrote:...jobs to Madison and more tax dollars to the city's coffers...


Jesus ENOUGH already. What is your horse in this race? Didn't you say you live in Verona?
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby swimmingupstream » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:03 pm

massimo wrote:Jesus ENOUGH already. What is your horse in this race? Didn't you say you live in Verona?

Recently moved here from Madison whose economic well-being does impact nearby smaller towns. Also, why are you for less speech?
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby Bad Gradger » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:05 pm

swimmingupstream wrote:Also, why are you for less speech?

That's stupid. It's not anti-expression to point out you've been a broken record throughout this entire thread.

And I agree this is just a NIMBY neighbor exploiting the process.
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Re: The Landmarks Commission-Still a Joke

Postby Michael Patrick » Wed Aug 10, 2011 3:05 pm

massimo wrote:
swimmingupstream wrote:...jobs to Madison and more tax dollars to the city's coffers...


Jesus ENOUGH already. What is your horse in this race? Didn't you say you live in Verona?


Why yes, he/she did say that...

swimmingupstream wrote:That is why I and many companies now live and work in Verona.


Really, just STFU already.
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