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Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

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Re: Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

Postby Peanutbutter » Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:08 pm

Walter wrote:I would like to point out at bar time our staffing is 28 officers for the entire city.


We all better hope the local gangs haven't heard the speech that Cyrus gave.
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Re: Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

Postby jonnygothispen » Sun Sep 25, 2011 5:18 pm

Walter wrote:
I do find it amusing how allegations are made the police are targeting bars that are black owned or patronized. We are responding to repeated calls to them involving weapons, sometimes gunfire, and large scale fights....
The nature of the calls is behavior, not skin color.

Weekend recap: Targeted victim shooting at R Place with an AK-47 caliber rifle (7.62mm x 39mm cartridge) on Thursday night into Friday morning.
And all this time I thought it was a Pirate bar called "Arr Place!"
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Re: Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

Postby indycoyote » Sun Sep 25, 2011 7:57 pm

Ouch Walter. They used an AK47? I used to own a Russian 7.62mm rifle, primarily to shoot sharks in the Gulf when they got hooked by accident. That's some serious firepower, especially on exit. I had no idea there were folks toting those things around town. Do the dept.-issued vests protect against something of that caliber??
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Re: Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

Postby Walter » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:18 am

If they're using full metal jacketed rounds, our bullet-resistant vests would barely slow them down. Other rounds would still go right through at least one side of the vest, maybe out the other side.

Our vests are not bullet-proof and they don't stop knives or pointed weapons either. They'll stop most handgun bullets but forget about rifles.
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Re: Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

Postby jjoyce » Mon Sep 26, 2011 8:58 am

This thread went off the rails over the weekend. I still don't get how the bar is involved in this particular case, other than being perhaps immediately nearby and the former employer of one of the targets.

I guess we can't have a discussion without somebody indicting someone else over motivations. I never brought up race or political leanings. Quit taking that weak bait and have a thought or two of your own.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the patrons of a bar are consistently the targets of crime, or participants in crime itself, outside that particular bar, then the bar is going to be targeted for shutting down even if the proprietor himself maintains a clean establishment, is that safe to say?

We have seen that there's a list of some 15 incidents at this particular bar, but they happened in 2009-2010. Does that indicate that the bar owner has cleaned up his act a little, maybe learned from mistakes and succeeded since then?

I've seen the incident release, but it still doesn't answer what the bar has to do with the crime other than geographic proximity? Even if every single one of the actors was in there drinking before the shooting, does the bar bear any responsibility for any crime taking place once those actors leave the premises?
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Re: Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

Postby jman111 » Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:10 am

As I recall, at least several of the earlier incidents did "spill out" from the establishment. I really am torn on this one- I think Rick has done a lot of work to clean this place up (I like the place and I've never witnessed any problems the handful of times I was there), but you can't deny that it seems to be a magnet for trouble (or troublemakers).

I believe there does exist an expectation, at least by the city, for the proprietor to maintain a semblance of peace outside of his/her establishment. That responsibility comes with the privilege of a liquor license. In some cases, it appears to be an unrealistic expectation, given the location or the patrons of the business.
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Re: Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

Postby snoqueen » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:09 am

Parking lot and street problems were the issue with the bar at the Stalzy's location.
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Re: Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

Postby Peanutbutter » Mon Sep 26, 2011 10:10 am

Police said the three men were attacked after leaving the bar, which was supposed to have been closed.

Keeping a bar open after the required closing time won't automatically result in shootings in the streets, but it does show that the business has very little regard for the law.
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Re: Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

Postby juanton » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:12 am

Yeah, if they were leaving the bar after it was supposed to be closed and one of the three leaving used to work there, then R Place should probably have some shit to deal with in terms of their license.
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Re: Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

Postby chance » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:18 am

jjoyce wrote:This thread went off the rails over the weekend...I guess we can't have a discussion without somebody indicting someone else over motivations. I never brought up race or political leanings.

You didn't have to. I'm sure you were aware, as many people are, that there has been an ongoing dispute about whether the city and the police department have been treating R Place unfairly because it's the only black-owned bar in the city. The owner has filed a lawsuit in federal court alleging, among other things, that he's being punished for gun-related incidents outside his bar -- just the issue raised by this last incident. I think you knew exactly what scab you were picking here.
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Re: Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

Postby peripat » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:27 am

Still the question is legitimate. Is the bar being treated the same way other bars are treated? If so, end of story- but if not, why not which logically leads to the next couple of questions.
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Re: Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

Postby mocofirst » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:32 am

jjoyce-
don't treat us like we're morons in an attempt to backpeddly from your initial inference that there was no connection between the bar and the shooting. Was there some other reason besides the racial and political implications of the story that you decided to start a thread about R Place? Do you hang out there regularly? Have you ever even had a beer there?
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Re: Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

Postby David Blaska » Mon Sep 26, 2011 11:49 am

jjoyce wrote:I guess we can't have a discussion without somebody indicting someone else over motivations.


That's just rich. Who said, in lieu of actually debating the topic of the day:

A Certain Moderator wrote:Blaska, you are a Republican operative and a conservative commentator who bellows anti-liberal rhetoric on the internet and talk radio at the drop of a hat.


I note that "Walter," "mocofirst," and "chance" took it the same way.

For the record, I am not a Republican "operative." I hold no title, occupy no office, nor receive any remuneration from the Republican party or from any other agency.
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Re: Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

Postby Dangerousman » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:09 pm

Peanutbutter wrote: will be quick to place all the blame on "guns"


Specifically those spontaneous fire guns, no doubt designed by the same people who brought the spontaneous fire car on Aberg Ave.
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Re: Unfortunate Cap Times headline of a Park St. shooting

Postby jjoyce » Mon Sep 26, 2011 12:38 pm

That was two years ago, Blaska. A guy can change, can't he?
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