MOBILE USERS: m.isthmus.com
Connect with Isthmus:         Newsletters 
Thursday, November 20, 2014 |  Madison, WI: 13.0° F  Fair
Collapse Photo Bar

Out of Iraq

If it's news, but not politics, then it goes here.

Out of Iraq

Postby acereraser » Fri Oct 21, 2011 12:47 pm

What great news! President Obama's habit of playing everything close does nothing to alleviate my personal tension, but as a Commander-in-Chief, who has been better? Do you have to go back to Roosevelt?

The dang irony of it all is that it may have been Iraq's refusal to give immunity to Little Bush's Blackwater mercenaries that provided the sticking point in negotiations, which possibly forced Obama to take his team and go home. I am not saying the Iraqis would rather foreign troops occupy their country further, but the cards had to be played correctly for this to happen now.
acereraser
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1428
Joined: Mon May 02, 2005 8:42 pm

Re: Out of Iraq

Postby ArturoBandini » Fri Oct 21, 2011 1:12 pm

Hell yes.
ArturoBandini
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 2251
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2008 11:54 pm
Location: near west

Re: Out of Iraq

Postby snoqueen » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:18 pm

Next, Afghanistan. Way too many good people been shot there already.
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 11744
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: Out of Iraq

Postby wack wack » Fri Oct 21, 2011 3:37 pm

snoqueen wrote:Next, Afghanistan. Way too many good people been shot there already.


Well, it seems that Clinton has been playing tough with Pakistan lately, maybe they're trying to set up an exit here too.

One can hope.
wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3170
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Henry Vilas » Sun Oct 23, 2011 3:10 pm

Here is yet another reason why we should also get out of Afghanistan and cut our losses.

Afghanistan would support Pakistan in case of military conflict between Pakistan and the United States, Afghan President Hamid Karzai said in an interview to a private Pakistani TV channel broadcast on Saturday.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20139
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Huckleby » Sun Oct 23, 2011 11:45 pm

keeping 15K troops or so in Iraq would have been wise. There is hope in Iraq.

I am angry at republicans who scream that Obama team is incompetent for not being able to negotiate these terms. They don't know the inner workings of the Iraqi government, I expect the U.S. had no choice but get the hell out.

It appears to me that we are doing more harm than good in Afghanistan and should get completely out of Af-Pak militarily.
Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6937
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Stella_Guru » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:14 am

Congrads President Obama, but a question remains. Why would a man who hates America so much allow his bodyguards to stock up on Coke and Pepsi?
Stella_Guru
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 1216
Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2008 7:08 pm

Re: Out of Iraq

Postby atron67 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:58 am

while i'm psyched that we are at least ending one war, all the news articles are pretty explicit, we are ending the war not because the Us gov't wanted it to end, but because the Iraqi gov't refused to let us stay.

Its great news but it has nothing to do with Obama being a great commander in chief.
atron67
Member
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:23 pm

Re: Out of Iraq

Postby rabble » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:23 am

I agree we're getting out because Iraq wants us out, and it's not because of Obama's diplomacy skills, but I still think you do him a diservice.

A Republican president would have said no.
rabble
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6441
Joined: Tue Jun 10, 2008 7:50 pm

Re: Out of Iraq

Postby snoqueen » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:29 am

These are negotiations. The US made it look like Iraq's fault, at least as seen by the US media. Some Iraqis wanted us out, some wanted us to stay. The "out" faction prevailed. It's cute to blame the Iraqis for our departure, but don't make me laugh: Obama really, really wanted to end this thing.

I give Obama credit for getting both the policy and the negotiation right this time. I don't know who gave him lessons, but he's learning well. Clinton gets a lot of credit, too, for making it happen. Keep going.
snoqueen
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 11744
Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:42 pm

Re: Out of Iraq

Postby wack wack » Mon Oct 24, 2011 9:46 am

atron67 wrote:while i'm psyched that we are at least ending one war, all the news articles are pretty explicit, we are ending the war not because the Us gov't wanted it to end, but because the Iraqi gov't refused to let us stay.

Its great news but it has nothing to do with Obama being a great commander in chief.


Curious: what "pretty explicit" news articles are you reading? Because the explicit news articles I've read indicate it was primarily matters of diplomatic immunity and prosecution of those left in Iraq... matters on which Obama could have caved, but didn't. Seems a pretty great "commandeer in chief" move to me.
wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3170
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Huckleby » Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:18 am

snoqueen wrote:These are negotiations. The US made it look like Iraq's fault, at least as seen by the US media. Some Iraqis wanted us out, some wanted us to stay. The "out" faction prevailed. It's cute to blame the Iraqis for our departure, but don't make me laugh: Obama really, really wanted to end this thing.

I give Obama credit for getting both the policy and the negotiation right this time. I don't know who gave him lessons, but he's learning well. Clinton gets a lot of credit, too, for making it happen. Keep going.


Get the negotiation right!? This is a painful failure we are trying to make the best of.

Obama did NOT really, really want to withdraw all troops. And getting our troops out does not "end this thing." Obama is a risk-averse guy. Withdrawing all our support services for Iraqi army (transport, intelligence, etc.) puts that country in highly vulnerable position. IF that place blows up in civil war, it is very bad for our country, and disasterous for Dems politically.

The majority of Iraqis wanted the U.S. to stay. But a critical part of Malaki's narrow coalition demanded all U.S. troops out.

I am not so worried about Iranian domination as some. But the government in Iraq truly is shitty. It is a completely sectarian government hostile to the Sunni and wary about the Kurds. The party that won a plurality of votes in the last election got totally excluded and screwed.

The breakdown in negotiatons is 100% due to Iraqis. It's their country, we can't save them from themselves. The U.S. will continue to have close military relationship via arms sales.
Huckleby
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 6937
Joined: Thu Oct 20, 2005 5:12 pm
Location: parents' basement

Re: Out of Iraq

Postby atron67 » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:21 pm

http://www.salon.com/2011/10/21/about_t ... singleton/

here's one article, that mentions some.
Obama is shrewd for not allowing American military personnel to go to iraqi prisons for carrying out actions for the US gov't? that's an angle I haven't heard. any evidence? I'm not buying that theory though if you can back it up...
atron67
Member
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Fri Feb 26, 2010 1:23 pm

Re: Out of Iraq

Postby wack wack » Mon Oct 24, 2011 2:34 pm

atron67 wrote:http://www.salon.com/2011/10/21/about_that_iraq_withdrawal/singleton/

here's one article, that mentions some.
Obama is shrewd for not allowing American military personnel to go to iraqi prisons for carrying out actions for the US gov't? that's an angle I haven't heard. any evidence? I'm not buying that theory though if you can back it up...


OK, how about the first article that comes up in a google search? From the iraqi PM himself:

http://news.yahoo.com/iraq-pm-immunity-issue-scuttled-us-troop-deal-115255334.html

To paraphrase: without the issue of immunity worked out, there is nothing else to talk about.
wack wack
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 3170
Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2003 5:32 pm

Re: Out of Iraq

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Oct 24, 2011 3:23 pm

As I said years ago, these wars will end the same way the Vietnam War ended. After dragging on your years, Americans will tire of these fruitless endeavors, the president will declare victory and bring our troops home. Then all hell will break loose.

No matter how long we prolong those wars, the results will be the same.
Henry Vilas
Forum God/Goddess
 
Posts: 20139
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2002 8:57 pm
Location: Name sez it all

Next

Return to Headlines

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests

moviesmusiceats
Select a Movie
Select a Theater


commentsViewedForum
  ISTHMUS FLICKR
Created with flickr badge.

Promotions Contact us Privacy Policy Jobs Newsletters RSS
Collapse Photo Bar