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This Solomon situation

Please limit discussion in this area to local and state politics.

Re: This Solomon situation

Postby HamsterArmageddon » Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:05 pm

radboy wrote:
jjoyce wrote: A gentleman would have declined the offer to spend the night,


Well, not James Bond.

BTW, what world do you live in?


TDPF.
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby jjoyce » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:29 am

snoqueen wrote:Adults can engage in dumb and embarrassing but evidently non-criminal interpersonal behavior (as we have here) and not pay with their political or professional lives -- or can't they? Who out there can say they've never done something equally regrettable at some point? Do the existence of the phrase "bar goggles" and the song "Why don't we get drunk and screw?" not point to some pretty fundamental human activities, awkward as they are in print the day after? If both parties were men, would this get the same scrutiny?

Have at it.


First, a big part of my argument is that you have the added element of a workplace relationship here, which is significant and takes it to another level from simple "bar goggles." Incidents like this affect the workplace and, in this situation, the workplace is city government.

Again, take the alleged abuse out of it and just leave it as an awkward sexual encounter. I think those in positions of leadership at work should do their best to avoid drunken shenanigans, misunderstandings or whatever you want to call them with coworkers. Show just a SHADE of judgment and self control. There are many crude sayings that convey this idea.

On the subject of whether situations like this should affect political lives, politics just further escalates the problem. That's where the "who among us" argument doesn't really fly. Who among us has set ourselves apart by putting our name on a ballot, asked for the public's trust and willingly put ourselves out there to be evaluated for our judgment? If you put a photo of your family in your election materials, you're agreeing that it's okay to set the bar higher for elected officials, which is all I'm doing.

Let's look at it this way: One guy goes downtown on Tuesday night, hangs out in a couple bars, gets drunk, flirts and hooks up. Another guy is a civic leader who deliberately ties one on, careens in and out of city hall in this inebriated state with an equally if not more inebriated pubic employee and deliberately puts himself directly into a "he said, she said" situation. Those aren't the same thing.

There were so many points along the way when this guy should have pulled the brake.
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Meade » Mon Nov 28, 2011 1:30 pm

jjoyce wrote:On the subject of whether situations like this should affect political lives, politics just further escalates the problem. That's where the "who among us" argument doesn't really fly. Who among us has set ourselves apart by putting our name on a ballot, asked for the public's trust and willingly put ourselves out there to be evaluated for our judgment?


Jason's argument is irrefutable.

I quote again from the article he linked to:

Many other council members were also reluctant to comment on the record, at least at any length.
An exception was Tim Bruer, who was one of the alders with Berg and Solomon at a pair of downtown taverns on the night of April 13, 2010, after a council meeting. He spoke at length to investigators about what he saw and says now that "it's ironic that many of the progressives on the council and in the community who are fast to be calling for state officials to resign for inappropriate behavior have not come forth and applied the same principles to Ald. Solomon," referring to calls for conservative state Supreme Court Justice David Prosser to step down amid allegations that he put liberal colleague Justice Ann Walsh Bradley in a chokehold in June. "In fact, they have subtly rallied around Ald. Solomon.


But wait... here is the money quote:

Ald. Lisa Subeck, likewise, says many council members are likely awaiting the Department of Civil Rights report on the sexual harassment complaint before making any public statements concerning Solomon.
"I suspect most of us won't be willing to say too much until we see the results of that," she says.


Now who is Lisa Subeck? Well, she's a Madison alderman of course. But she was also one of the leaders who led a rally at the Capitol in July to call for state Supreme Court Justice David Prosser to step aside pending results of an investigation into his behavior. Subeck is also executive director of NARAL Pro-Choice Wisconsin which put their demand in writing on July 5, 2011:

Women’s Rights Organizations and Elected Officials Call for Justice David Prosser to Step Down until Investigations are Completehttp://www.prochoicewisconsin.org/news/press/201107081.shtml


Twenty-two other entities joined her:

NARAL Pro-Choice Wisconsin
National Lawyers Guild, Madison chapter
National Organization for Women (NOW), Madison chapter
Planned Parenthood Advocates of Wisconsin
Wisconsin NOW
Wisconsin Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice
Women’s Medical Fund, Inc.
Dane County Board Supervisor Carousel Bayrd
Grant County Board Supervisor Carol Beals
Representative Terese Berceau
Madison City Council President Pro-Tem Shiva Bidar Sielaff
Madison City Council President Lauren Cnare
Dane County Board Supervisor Sharon Corrigan
Dane County Board Supervisor Analiese Eicher
Dane County Board Supervisor Dianne Hesselbein
Milwaukee Public School Board Member Meagan Holman
Madison Alder Bridget Maniaci
Madison School District Board Vice-President Marj Passman
Madison Alder Marsha Rummel
Dane County Board Supervisor Melissa Sargent
Madison School Board Member Arlene Silveira
Madison Alder Lisa Subeck
Dane County Board Supervisor Barb Vedder


Where are these same voices now when it is one of their own, one who shares their ideological bent, who is alleged to have committed assault on his coworker?

Listen.

Deafening silence.
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Ned Flanders » Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:03 pm

Wow, the article reads like a bad Penthouse letter.

I mean, the guy found the babe's keys, took her home and administered two rounds of manual love. Did she expect him to clean the bathroom and bake a pie too?

He just gave and gave...
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Comrade » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:35 pm

Not sure how to put this so it doesn't come out the wrong way and sound judgemental when that is not my intention, but will try anyway.

I am largely in agreement wtih jjoyce here and I am appalled by the stunning lack of judgement shown.

There is nothing wrong with going to a bar and having a beer or two with colleagues after work or a meeting. Why couldn't it stop at that? Why the imperative need to get competely trashed? I could understand and expect that from college students, but that behavior will dramaticly shorten your life and lead to numerous health problems. Eventually adults get that and stop acting like such juveniles.

I think, that ALL of us on BOTH sides of the isle, need to take a few steps back and consider whether this is the caliber of people that we want in power to make decisions on how the rest of us will live in this community?

I believe that ALL of us can do better than this....
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Huckleby » Mon Nov 28, 2011 4:44 pm

In the roman senate, they would discuss big issues while getting completely passed-out drunk. I guess they found value in uninhibited ranting. The conversation would then continue post-sleep, post hangover.

maybe the alders show wisdom from the ancients
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby indycoyote » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:05 pm

Big difference between a violent physical altercation and two drunk gropers Meadester. I can only surmise that you've never engaged in drunk groping. Perhaps your mom can fill you in on how you were conceived.
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Madsci » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:29 pm

The story out has way too much personal information for me. Brian or Elena are both doomed from living a normal life in Madison. Bye and good luck.

PS, don't drink so much that you lose control
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Comrade » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:46 pm

Huckleby wrote:In the roman senate, they would discuss big issues while getting completely passed-out drunk. I guess they found value in uninhibited ranting. The conversation would then continue post-sleep, post hangover.

maybe the alders show wisdom from the ancients


And?????

Look what happened to the Roman Empire. Is that what you want to have happen to us?
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Henry Vilas » Mon Nov 28, 2011 8:56 pm

The Greeks, in what is now Ephesus Turkey, used to discussed politics while taking their morning constitutional.

Image

At least that is what our tour guide told us.
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby rabble » Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:39 pm

Comrade wrote:Look what happened to the Roman Empire. Is that what you want to have happen to us?

Are you operating on the assumption that the American Empire is going to last longer than either of the Roman Empires? I mean, we've been here two hundred years and we've bankrupted the whole damn planet except for the part we owe half the country to.
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Igor » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:10 pm

indycoyote wrote:Big difference between a violent physical altercation and two drunk gropers Meadester.


If every encounter that as "violent" as Prosser v. Bradley resulted in a criminal investigation, the police would be doing almost nothing else. I will bet that confrontations like that happen at schools, bars, and rummage sales every day.
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Igor » Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:18 pm

Madsci wrote:The story out has way too much personal information for me. Brian or Elena are both doomed from living a normal life in Madison. Bye and good luck.


Yes and no. There are many people in Madison that wouldn't know either one of them from Adam's off ox. I try to keep fairly informed on city matters, but had never seen a picture of Brian until the linked article. Staying involved in City government might be less comfortable, since everyone knows everyone else's business. Move out east of Stoughton Road, or west of Whitney Way.

Madsci wrote: PS, don't drink so much that you lose control


Agreed.
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Comrade » Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:50 pm

rabble wrote:
Comrade wrote:Look what happened to the Roman Empire. Is that what you want to have happen to us?

Are you operating on the assumption that the American Empire is going to last longer than either of the Roman Empires? I mean, we've been here two hundred years and we've bankrupted the whole damn planet except for the part we owe half the country to.


No such assumptions at all for me. Can I presume that you have given up on our country and don't want us to succeed and therefore you wish us to emulate known failures, methods, and policies?
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Huckleby » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:31 am

Comrade wrote:Look what happened to the Roman Empire. Is that what you want to have happen to us?


sure, they had a good run, nothing is forever, not even Soglin.

Never understood how the Romans managed to blame the jews for killing Jesus, crafty devils, those Italians.
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