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This Solomon situation

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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Kenneth Burns » Tue Nov 29, 2011 8:50 am

Meade wrote:Where are these same voices now when it is one of their own, one who shares their ideological bent, who is alleged to have committed assault on his coworker?

Listen.

Deafening silence.


Meade wrote:Even now, in this very thread, the "outrage" is over Solomon's poor judgement, the hand-wringing is about whether or not this is a "generational thing". Oh well, we mustn't be judgmental. That would not be tolerant or liberal or progressive. Best bet is everyone to lay low - no pub crawls or drunk driving for six months or so. At least until this all blows over.


I understand what you're saying about silence as it relates to partisan politics. What I don't understand is the claim that silence in the face of alleged sexual assault represents liberal, progressive values. Huh?
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby rabble » Tue Nov 29, 2011 9:15 am

Comrade wrote:
rabble wrote:
Comrade wrote:Look what happened to the Roman Empire. Is that what you want to have happen to us?

Are you operating on the assumption that the American Empire is going to last longer than either of the Roman Empires? I mean, we've been here two hundred years and we've bankrupted the whole damn planet except for the part we owe half the country to.


No such assumptions at all for me. Can I presume that you have given up on our country and don't want us to succeed and therefore you wish us to emulate known failures, methods, and policies?

Well what ARE you saying then? That if we get drunk our empire will only last a thousand years?
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby scratch » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:16 am

Meade wrote:radboy (as if your name is really radboy)


Meade, you keep coming back to this non-point with various Forons. Is TDPF your first encounter with a message board?

At least your BFFs Blaska and Ned occasionally post an entertainint or original thought. Maybe Mommy can give you a little help with posting.
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Comrade » Tue Nov 29, 2011 10:49 am

Are you operating on the assumption that the American Empire is going to last longer than either of the Roman Empires? I mean, we've been here two hundred years and we've bankrupted the whole damn planet except for the part we owe half the country to.[/quote]

No such assumptions at all for me. Can I presume that you have given up on our country and don't want us to succeed and therefore you wish us to emulate known failures, methods, and policies?[/quote]
Well what ARE you saying then? That if we get drunk our empire will only last a thousand years?[/quote]

I am saying that we should learn from the mistakes of the past so we don't repeat them. Why are you so deliberately obtuse? You seem to feel this compelling need to pervert the meaning of other peoples posts, demanding answers and yet refusing others that same courtesy of having their questions to you answered.
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby rabble » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:13 am

Comrade wrote:I am saying that we should learn from the mistakes of the past so we don't repeat them. Why are you so deliberately obtuse? You seem to feel this compelling need to pervert the meaning of other peoples posts, demanding answers and yet refusing others that same courtesy of having their questions to you answered.

So it was the getting drunk that caused the empire to fail, then? How did that work?

They got drunk and then a thousand years later, look! The empire fell apart! See? Obviously, the social aspects of alcohol caused it. Anyone who's not obtuse can see that.

That's your proof? Anything that happened between a culture's beginning and ending must have been the cause of its fall?
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Meade » Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:41 am

Kenneth Burns wrote:I understand what you're saying about silence as it relates to partisan politics.


Right. Thank you for speaking up, Kenneth.

By the way, to the list of those who signed the NARAL Pro-
Choice Wisconsin demand letter, we should add participants and speakers at that July rally on the Capitol steps including:

    Annie Laurie Gaylor, who represented the Women's Medical Fund
    Melissa Sargent, Dane County Board Supervisor
    Anthony Prince,
    Scot Ross, executive director of liberal advocacy group One Wisconsin Now
    Rabbi Bonnie Margulis, of the Religious Coalition for Reproductive Choice
    Former Dane County Executive Kathleen Falk
    And "[a]bout 130 protesters [who] assembled, holding signs and delivering chants decrying Prosser's alleged actions" http://www.thedailypage.com/daily/artic ... icle=34065
    And the creators of a 25-foot tall inflatable Prosser effigy balloon - protesters Miles Kristan and Arthur Kohl-Riggs.



Kenneth Burns wrote:What I don't understand is the claim that silence in the face of alleged sexual assault represents liberal, progressive values. Huh?


I don't think I made the claim that silence in the face of alleged sexual assault does represent liberal or progressive values. Certainly not authentic liberal or progressive values.

But that was my point and so I apologize for my sarcasm.

What I meant to ask, in earnest is:

What does the silence, now - from self-identifying liberals and progressives - represent?
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby bdog » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:13 pm

Meade wrote:What does the silence, now - from self-identifying liberals and progressives - represent?

Solidarity.
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby rabble » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:36 pm

Meade wrote:What does the silence, now - from self-identifying liberals and progressives - represent?

Silence? What silence? Plenty people saying there were huge fuckups made. How many would it take to make it not silent?

My own opinion is basically what I think Jason's is; the fuckup is that people were going to drive. The sex thing shows even more lack of judgement but the big one is that elected officials were going to dui.
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Comrade » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:38 pm

rabble wrote:
Comrade wrote:I am saying that we should learn from the mistakes of the past so we don't repeat them. Why are you so deliberately obtuse? You seem to feel this compelling need to pervert the meaning of other peoples posts, demanding answers and yet refusing others that same courtesy of having their questions to you answered.

So it was the getting drunk that caused the empire to fail, then? How did that work?

They got drunk and then a thousand years later, look! The empire fell apart! See? Obviously, the social aspects of alcohol caused it. Anyone who's not obtuse can see that.

That's your proof? Anything that happened between a culture's beginning and ending must have been the cause of its fall?


You are doing it again-troll
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby gargantua » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:40 pm

bdog wrote:
Meade wrote:What does the silence, now - from self-identifying liberals and progressives - represent?

Solidarity.


In my case, it represents rejection of the false equivalence between the Solomon situation and the Prosser situation. It's just the latest of many "liberals are hypocrites" strawman issues that pop up on TDPF from time-to-time. Disputing them gets old after awhile. Hence, silence.
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Henry Vilas » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:41 pm

gargantua wrote:... the false equivalence between the Solomon situation and the Prosser situation.

Hear, hear.
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby bdog » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:47 pm

I assumed Meade was referring to the silence of people like Lisa Subeck and Kathleen Falk, who were quick to denounce Prosser's alleged actions but have said nada about Solomon's.

"False equivalence!" - I'll have to remember that weak retort.
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby David Blaska » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:50 pm

Meade wrote:What does the silence, now - from self-identifying liberals and progressives - represent?

bdog wrote:Solidarity.

gargantua wrote:In my case, it represents rejection of the false equivalence between the Solomon situation and the Prosser situation. It's just the latest of many "liberals are hypocrites" strawman issues that pop up on TDPF from time-to-time. Disputing them gets old after awhile. Hence, silence.


Well, the Solomon case got old for our liberal friends so fast it broke the sound barrier. But I'm interested in the Forons' definition of feminism: how is calling for Prosser to step down during an investigation a "false equivalence" to their total silence after the facts are known in the Solomon case?

Ald. Tim Bruer wrote:
"It's ironic that many of the progressives on the council and in the community who are fast to be calling for state officials to resign for inappropriate behavior have not come forth and applied the same principles to Ald. [Brian] Solomon," referring to calls for conservative state Supreme Court Justice David Prosser to step down amid allegations that he put liberal colleague Justice Ann Walsh Bradley in a chokehold in June. "In fact, they have subtly rallied around Ald. Solomon."


Again, Dear Progs, the question: what is the "false equivalence?"
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby Meade » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:58 pm

rabble wrote:
Meade wrote:What does the silence, now - from self-identifying liberals and progressives - represent?

Silence? What silence? Plenty people saying there were huge fuckups made. How many would it take to make it not silent?


Let me try drawing for you a textual picture:

Compare and Contrast
Prosser -- Solomon

- both: elected public official
- both: accused by a co-worker of assault
- both: alleged assault occurred in Madison, Wisconsin
- both: placed under investigation

Prosser: Conservative -- Solomon: Progressive/Liberal
Prosser: Accuser a peer -- Solomon: Accuser a subordinate
Prosser: (Outcry) Demands by liberal/progressive/women's rights groups to step down from official position while investigation is completed -- Solomon: (Silence) No demands by same liberal/progressive/women's rights groups to step down from official position while investigation is completed

I hope that helps, rabble.
(No, I know your real name isn't rabble... it's just the "foron" nickname you gave yourself.)
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Re: This Solomon situation

Postby snoqueen » Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:08 pm

How is trying to choke somebody equivalent to having sex with somebody who publicly regretted it later but gave no indication at the time that she was having regrets?

I'm with those who say this should be a drunk-driving discussion instead of a sex/regrets thing. Drunk driving comes with a lot more to regret (like killing somebody and wrecking your own life) than stupid sex. And with DUI at least we can agree on the ground rules.
Last edited by snoqueen on Tue Nov 29, 2011 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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