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Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

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Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

Postby swimmingupstream » Fri Dec 02, 2011 3:40 pm

It is clear that Hammes Co. is pushing forward with the project and force the city's hand. If they have all of their ducks in a row and the city does not fulfill the agreement struck earlier this year, Hammes will have good grounds for a lawsuit against the city. I could see Hammes taking the gamble to start the project, banking on it working out for them in the courts. It would be interesting to see what turns up in discovery. Did Soglin conspire with Fred Mohs to trip up the project? Did any city staff or alders do the same? Time will tell.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/ ... 1ee16.html
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Re: Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

Postby rabble » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:03 pm

I know I'm about to open the floodgates for the "anybody can see it so I don't need evidence" river, but here I go anyway.

Where in that article does it imply that anyone is considering a lawsuit or Hammes is pushing forward with the project?

Are you saying he's going to start construction without the TIF and then sue the city for 16 Mil? How do you know?
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Re: Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

Postby snoqueen » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:16 pm

If he starts construction on that thing without any city money at all, I'm not sure who has the last laugh. Maybe Paul Soglin.

Also, does anyone know if DNR signed off on his plans for a great big pier?
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Re: Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

Postby swimmingupstream » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:22 pm

Past is prologue...

"Miami city commissioners today will consider picking a company to oversee a roughly $150 million renovation of the historic Orange Bowl stadium, home to the University of Miami football team.
There's only one problem: The city did the same thing more than a year ago, and now faces a legal mess because the first company chosen refuses to get out of the way.
That company, Wisconsin-based Hammes, is accusing the city of breaking a contract for political reasons."

http://orangebowlncaa.blogspot.com/
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Re: Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

Postby green union terrace chair » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:28 pm

snoqueen wrote:Also, does anyone know if DNR signed off on his plans for a great big pier?

Several months ago someone from the DNR laughed it off as improbable*, before there was a formal application. I haven't heard or read anything since that the DNR has been formally consulted on it since.

*Go ahead and take this as hearsay, as I cannot recall the source.

As for a lawsuit, my personal opinion is that unless city staff are obstructionist in getting everything finalized by the end of this year, there's no further obligation to Hammes. TIF approvals are always for a limited amount of time. Just because one council approves X amount of dollars doesn't mean future councils are obligated to reauthorize that amount until the developer finally cashes in on it.

But I am not a lawyer and one does not need to be right in order to file a lawsuit.
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Re: Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

Postby rabble » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:43 pm

green union terrace chair wrote:
snoqueen wrote:Also, does anyone know if DNR signed off on his plans for a great big pier?

Several months ago someone from the DNR laughed it off as improbable*, before there was a formal application. I haven't heard or read anything since that the DNR has been formally consulted on it since.

*Go ahead and take this as hearsay, as I cannot recall the source.

I remember that one too and I recall reading it in TWO articles for which I also cannot remember the source. Except I'm pretty sure one of them was good ol madison dot com. So now we've got two anecdotes.
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Re: Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

Postby green union terrace chair » Fri Dec 02, 2011 4:48 pm

rabble wrote:
green union terrace chair wrote:
snoqueen wrote:Also, does anyone know if DNR signed off on his plans for a great big pier?

Several months ago someone from the DNR laughed it off as improbable*, before there was a formal application. I haven't heard or read anything since that the DNR has been formally consulted on it since.

*Go ahead and take this as hearsay, as I cannot recall the source.

I remember that one too and I recall reading it in TWO articles for which I also cannot remember the source. Except I'm pretty sure one of them was good ol madison dot com. So now we've got two anecdotes.

Now that I think about it, it might have been someone not from the DNR, but just someone well-versed in DNR ephemera.

Makes me wonder about the WAA / Wisconsin Union's plan for the dock changes down by the Terrace.
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Re: Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

Postby rabble » Fri Dec 02, 2011 5:03 pm

green union terrace chair wrote:Now that I think about it, it might have been someone not from the DNR, but just someone well-versed in DNR ephemera.

Makes me wonder about the WAA / Wisconsin Union's plan for the dock changes down by the Terrace.

I think I found one of 'em.
At this point, it looks like the neighborhood leaders may be in the right: Channel 3000 spoke to a DNR official who works with pier permits, who said the current pier (which has tables and chairs for bar-goers) does not conform with state law that prevents privatizing public lakes. In addition, Sue Josheff ...said that the proposed pier extension may not meet length and width requirements for building new piers.
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Re: Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

Postby snoqueen » Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:12 pm

I remember sitting through at least one meeting where Dunn claimed to have "talked with" DNR but when pinned, admitted he didn't have any type of permission or agreement to show for it.

I also seem to remember DNR at one point said Dunn's proposed pier came nowhere near meeting regulations, but it's worth remembering established DNR regulations may not mean much under the current regime.
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Re: Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

Postby gargantua » Fri Dec 02, 2011 11:49 pm

I guess this is fun to speculate about, but let's be serious for a moment. If Hammes can't complete its obligations to secure the $16 mil before the end of the year, it's over.

Not saying they won't sue, but I'm taking bets on a Hopalicious for anyone who thinks they'd win. Mmmmm.....Hopalicious!

I wish there were an adult in the room on the Edgewater side. Just scale the project down to fit within 12.7 million fewer dollars. Are we seriously expected to believe that isn't remotely possible? Come on! We don't need the skating rink, OK?
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Re: Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

Postby rabble » Sat Dec 03, 2011 8:40 am

gargantua wrote:I wish there were an adult in the room on the Edgewater side. Just scale the project down to fit within 12.7 million fewer dollars. Are we seriously expected to believe that isn't remotely possible? Come on! We don't need the skating rink, OK?

If that project goes the way of just about every other project of any type I've ever worked on or knew anybody who worked on, the way it would work out is they'd take the 16 million because they need it to build the skating rink and halfway through the project, suddenly out of nowhere something would come up and they'd have to skip building the skating rink.

A few people would wonder what happened to the 16 million but by then everyone else would have move on.
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Re: Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

Postby PhilBall » Sat Dec 03, 2011 1:01 pm

Hammes/Dunn failed to secure private financing in Madison. They claim they locked it up with two banks in Oshkosh/Mukwonago/Big Bush/Wild Rose or somewhere thereabouts.What they 'locked up' is a long list of contingencies.
First on the list is the easiest to meet.

BANK will secure CLIENT financing in
requested amount when;
1) Hell freezes over;
2) Pope renounces Catholicism;
3) 3-10 are really tough.
We are pleased to serve you.
Let us know when 1) obtains.

I don't know about you but my money ain't on Hell or the Pope.
Dunn's is.
As for gifting TIF to EdgeWalker, that warped dream died the moment a handful of deadbeats, malcontents, naysayers, gazillionaires, beatup VN vets, teachers, preservationists, rationalists, anarcho-syndicalists, Bluto-type union thugs such as John Mathews, crazed pols, media wannabes, neighborhood bullies, anti-Randian architects and Graaskampers/historians joined forces in secret alliance with Madison media moguls to frustrate a few powdered butts from Maple Bluff.
Mark the date: January 1, 2009. All that followed is prologue.

I know this to be a full and true account of the demise of what was once known as 'The Great EdgeWalker Scam and Skate Rink.'
Sworn this date before Philip Durward Ball.
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Re: Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

Postby snoqueen » Sat Dec 03, 2011 6:02 pm

That's fine, but now tell us the Edgewater/Walker connection.
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Re: Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

Postby PhilBall » Sat Dec 03, 2011 9:09 pm

That's fine, but now tell us the Edgewater/Walker connection.

I'm glad you noticed that, SnoQueen.
Lesser vessels have suggested that it is a cheap ploy on my part to besmirch the evocative singsong of Edgewater through association with the hateful train wreck that is Walker, and in so doing crush what small bit of support remains for Dunn's Scam and Skate.
However,that Dunn's big boss Hammes is Walker's Wisconsin Godfather never entered my mind. If he wants to piss away your tax dollars on bribes to cheats and deadbeats like 'Sonny Boy' Walker - if he wants to snatch bread from the mouths of hungry kindergarteners struggling to survive in Madison's financially strapped public schools for lack of the very tax dollars that Hammes/Dunn propose to steal through TIF - is of no concern to me.
Truth is I made a simple typo and liked it so much I never got around to changing it. Deserved apologies are in the mail.
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Re: Next stop, Edgewater lawsuit.

Postby bdog » Fri Aug 31, 2012 8:25 pm

swimmingupstream wrote:It is clear that Hammes Co. is pushing forward with the project and force the city's hand. If they have all of their ducks in a row and the city does not fulfill the agreement struck earlier this year, Hammes will have good grounds for a lawsuit against the city. I could see Hammes taking the gamble to start the project, banking on it working out for them in the courts. It would be interesting to see what turns up in discovery. Did Soglin conspire with Fred Mohs to trip up the project? Did any city staff or alders do the same? Time will tell.

http://host.madison.com/wsj/news/local/ ... 1ee16.html

Preserved.
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